whats in it for the usa to provide financial assistance i wonder? weaken russia? funnel money to their defense bros? probably both, certainly not out of the goodness of their heart. britain is no different.
what should have happened is countries form a coalition of troops under a non-nato banner and go in and help with the fighting... if they really wanted to help ukraine that is.
The current state sees Russia being destroyed by its victim for Pennie’s on the dollar. I can’t think of a cheaper way to watch Russia humiliate and completely ruin its military. Resort to using DPRK to unwind the Kursk invasion
Less a scandal than the predictable outcome of a massive wartime trade account deficit, and faltering state revenues, that have to be made up via the sale of Ukrainian assets in the capital account paying out to the state? I am a socialist, but Ukraine is in a war of survival under extreme economic duress, and could lose US backing under Trump. It has to do whatever is necessary at this point. Not surprising it would favour the UK given that it's one of its leading geopolitical backers and the City of London. Happy to be told otherwise if anyone knows more about the Ukrainian economy and any alternative lifelines open to it.
And support some sort of Dick Cheney move on Ukranian communal assets?
Don't you think selling out the country will deplete moral? Eaten by Russia from the east, eaten by US/UK from the west? Crushed between super powers. What a gruesome fate, but "whatever is necessary" I guess.
Ukraine's capital account has to offset its trade account or its currency tanks, and the state is in desperate for revenue, so however regrettable, this looks more like predictable economic arithmetic working itself out than a conspiracy. I don't 'support' it, that's not the point, but the global trade architecture is a brute fact of the conjuncture which give states in Ukraine's extreme situation few options. Again, happy to be told otherwise by anyone with more knowledge of the Ukrainian economy.
I should say, Mark Curtis is a well-known conspiracy-adjacent figure in the UK. His piece cherry picks and distorts the primary sources. He makes mundane civil service work sound far more sinister than it is. Go on the UK project website and read for yourself.
Curtis' version:
"It notes: “Ironically, despite the horrific circumstances in which interventions are being delivered, the operating context has provided a unique opportunity to really demonstrate to the GoU [government of Ukraine] and the Ukrainian population the importance and effectiveness of targeted technical assistance interventions designed to deliver reforms that generate tangible benefits”.
These reforms are also variously described in the UK project documents as “better integration with Euro-Atlantic markets” and “aligning it [Ukraine] more closely with Western markets”."
Original version:
"Whilst Russia’s invasion has had a fundamental impact, the roots of Ukraine’s weak governance and growth stretch back to independence: systemic corruption via oligarchy and economic concentration; inconsistent application of the rule of law and judicial corruption; weak public administration capacity and state capture, and large-scale state involvement in the economy. These were some of the factors driving the need for continuation of the GGF even prior to the invasion.
What has changed over the past year is that the invasion has led to a profound increase in need, coupled with an unsettling of the previous reform-resistant ‘elite bargain’. As such, opportunities exist for serious reform and a healthier long-term political settlement. Some favourable conditions exist such as a (temporary) decline in the political power of the oligarchs , much greater international support for Ukraine, including increased international support for EU candidacy as both an incentive and a structured process for deep-rooted reforms, greater social cohesion, and a resurgence of civil society and civic activism. Most importantly, public support for the state has grown, and in part as a result of the support of GGF-funded and managed interventions.
Ironically, despite the horrific circumstances in which interventions are being delivered, the operating context has provided a unique opportunity to really demonstrate to the GoU and the Ukrainian population the importance and effectiveness of targeted technical assistance interventions designed to deliver reforms that generate tangible benefits. The GGF has seized such opportunities providing valuable support to some hugely important reforms for example: through the TAPAS project IDPs were able to receive status certificates in days instead of weeks, citizens accessed ID cards, passports, birth certificates and tax payer identification numbers online in 18 regions and half a million people, (55% women) from occupied areas and active warzones were able to register their unemployment status and thus receive GoU support. The IFC project has supported Digital Data Corridors that have enabled thousands of Ukrainian refugees in eight countries across Europe to access their credit history. The IFES project resulted in over 3,000 students in 22 universities actively engaging in civic education. Finally, the IDLO project has supported the Higher Council of Justice (HCJ) to resume its work after a two year hiatus, appointing 8 new members in January 2023.
"
So, Curtis' killer quote actually referred to helping hundreds of thousands of displaced or embattled Ukrainians access their passports and birth certificates so that they could claim state benefits and asylum abroad.
> this looks more like predictable economic arithmetic working itself out than a conspiracy.
Fighting wars for the profit of Brittish bankers is a classic conspiracy, ye.
A firesale of communal property is a bad deal. What is even the market value of a factory or mine that might end up on the other side of the front line? How does the market price in a total write off of the asset?
If a government makes great powers profit from war revaging it, the country is up for a really bad time. One might speculate about the order of events here.
Cutting a deal with the capital is cutting a deal with the devil. It is just a more politically palatable form of surrendering but with the working class still forced into the trenches.
I'm not sure how you interpreted this as a scandal for Ukraine. It's a scandal for the UK. Nobody cares if the Ukraine government is corrupt, it was notoriously referred to before the war as the most corrupt country in Europe.
I agree it was always about resources, that's why it's long been Russian policy to forcibly occupy the iron and coal rich Donbass, starting in tsarist times, continuing during soviet times and reaching its culmination now.
The US didn't have to stage no coup, the Ukrainian people knew very well that Russia would never respect Ukraine's territorial integrity, as they have been proving almost continously for over a century now.
It's amazing the number of lies in this one comment.
I'll attempt to list some glaring ones:
> claims 500k dead but his own source instead says that deaths and injuries on both sides are near that number, and it's well known Russians have higher losses
> implying that Russian rule wouldn't be that bad, forgetting to mention that the last time the Russians were in power in Eastern Ukraine they killed over 3 million in less than 2 years
> general lies about "the guys gutting the world" even though post-soviet countries that are now aligned with the west have far outperformed their counterparts economically (except for the ones that have been invaded by Russia)
This sort of drivel can only be written by someone who wilfully ignores recent history.
You mean Yanukovich spent most of his presidency hyping and promoting joining the EU and then reneged at the very last moment because he was given 3 billion Euro by Russia.
Your description of events sounds like it comes from a domestic abuser.
The people choose the west instead of russia, and russia attacks them in retaliation. "Look what you made me do," says the abuser as they abuse in response, upset their victim prefers someone else. The abuser believes their abuse is righteous, but it is actually illegal and immoral.
In reality, nobody made the abuser abuse. Violence is the response of the unhappy abuser because they're unable to deal with their feelings like a civilized person. Of course the abuser could go away and mind their own business, rather than abusing. They just don't want to. The abuser feels absolutely entitled to absolutely control their victims.
The fact that Ukraine was right to reject the xenophobic psychopath state which denies even the existence of their people is written in the blasted stones and their children's blood spilled on the ground.
If not for one mans ambitions the war would not be. If not for his pride it could not continue.
The government of Ukraine is elected lawfully.
They prople rejected Viktor Yanukovych his deal with Russia and the murder of his citizens. The Ukrainian parliment voted to remove him. Russia responded by trying to take by violence what they could take by treachery.
Viktor Yanukovych supports the mass murder of his own people and the people chose a new less craven leader.
A lot of people think pedophiles are at the bottom of the moral spectrum, that is hard for there to be anything worse, oh boy, if they knew its not even close to the bottom.
Oh yes how opportunistic. Now that Ukraine had been weakened let’s push thru some “reforms” to make it easier to pillage legally.
Now? This has been ongoing. You can even join in yourself: https://privatization.gov.ua/en/
whats in it for the usa to provide financial assistance i wonder? weaken russia? funnel money to their defense bros? probably both, certainly not out of the goodness of their heart. britain is no different.
what should have happened is countries form a coalition of troops under a non-nato banner and go in and help with the fighting... if they really wanted to help ukraine that is.
what we see atm is all just money money money.
Start world war 3?
The current state sees Russia being destroyed by its victim for Pennie’s on the dollar. I can’t think of a cheaper way to watch Russia humiliate and completely ruin its military. Resort to using DPRK to unwind the Kursk invasion
With no risk to NATO forces
Scandalous that war is business, instead of battle between good and evil
Less a scandal than the predictable outcome of a massive wartime trade account deficit, and faltering state revenues, that have to be made up via the sale of Ukrainian assets in the capital account paying out to the state? I am a socialist, but Ukraine is in a war of survival under extreme economic duress, and could lose US backing under Trump. It has to do whatever is necessary at this point. Not surprising it would favour the UK given that it's one of its leading geopolitical backers and the City of London. Happy to be told otherwise if anyone knows more about the Ukrainian economy and any alternative lifelines open to it.
> I am a socialist
And support some sort of Dick Cheney move on Ukranian communal assets?
Don't you think selling out the country will deplete moral? Eaten by Russia from the east, eaten by US/UK from the west? Crushed between super powers. What a gruesome fate, but "whatever is necessary" I guess.
Ukraine's capital account has to offset its trade account or its currency tanks, and the state is in desperate for revenue, so however regrettable, this looks more like predictable economic arithmetic working itself out than a conspiracy. I don't 'support' it, that's not the point, but the global trade architecture is a brute fact of the conjuncture which give states in Ukraine's extreme situation few options. Again, happy to be told otherwise by anyone with more knowledge of the Ukrainian economy.
I should say, Mark Curtis is a well-known conspiracy-adjacent figure in the UK. His piece cherry picks and distorts the primary sources. He makes mundane civil service work sound far more sinister than it is. Go on the UK project website and read for yourself.
Curtis' version:
"It notes: “Ironically, despite the horrific circumstances in which interventions are being delivered, the operating context has provided a unique opportunity to really demonstrate to the GoU [government of Ukraine] and the Ukrainian population the importance and effectiveness of targeted technical assistance interventions designed to deliver reforms that generate tangible benefits”.
These reforms are also variously described in the UK project documents as “better integration with Euro-Atlantic markets” and “aligning it [Ukraine] more closely with Western markets”."
Original version:
"Whilst Russia’s invasion has had a fundamental impact, the roots of Ukraine’s weak governance and growth stretch back to independence: systemic corruption via oligarchy and economic concentration; inconsistent application of the rule of law and judicial corruption; weak public administration capacity and state capture, and large-scale state involvement in the economy. These were some of the factors driving the need for continuation of the GGF even prior to the invasion.
What has changed over the past year is that the invasion has led to a profound increase in need, coupled with an unsettling of the previous reform-resistant ‘elite bargain’. As such, opportunities exist for serious reform and a healthier long-term political settlement. Some favourable conditions exist such as a (temporary) decline in the political power of the oligarchs , much greater international support for Ukraine, including increased international support for EU candidacy as both an incentive and a structured process for deep-rooted reforms, greater social cohesion, and a resurgence of civil society and civic activism. Most importantly, public support for the state has grown, and in part as a result of the support of GGF-funded and managed interventions.
Ironically, despite the horrific circumstances in which interventions are being delivered, the operating context has provided a unique opportunity to really demonstrate to the GoU and the Ukrainian population the importance and effectiveness of targeted technical assistance interventions designed to deliver reforms that generate tangible benefits. The GGF has seized such opportunities providing valuable support to some hugely important reforms for example: through the TAPAS project IDPs were able to receive status certificates in days instead of weeks, citizens accessed ID cards, passports, birth certificates and tax payer identification numbers online in 18 regions and half a million people, (55% women) from occupied areas and active warzones were able to register their unemployment status and thus receive GoU support. The IFC project has supported Digital Data Corridors that have enabled thousands of Ukrainian refugees in eight countries across Europe to access their credit history. The IFES project resulted in over 3,000 students in 22 universities actively engaging in civic education. Finally, the IDLO project has supported the Higher Council of Justice (HCJ) to resume its work after a two year hiatus, appointing 8 new members in January 2023. "
So, Curtis' killer quote actually referred to helping hundreds of thousands of displaced or embattled Ukrainians access their passports and birth certificates so that they could claim state benefits and asylum abroad.
> this looks more like predictable economic arithmetic working itself out than a conspiracy.
Fighting wars for the profit of Brittish bankers is a classic conspiracy, ye.
A firesale of communal property is a bad deal. What is even the market value of a factory or mine that might end up on the other side of the front line? How does the market price in a total write off of the asset?
If a government makes great powers profit from war revaging it, the country is up for a really bad time. One might speculate about the order of events here.
Cutting a deal with the capital is cutting a deal with the devil. It is just a more politically palatable form of surrendering but with the working class still forced into the trenches.
I'm not sure how you interpreted this as a scandal for Ukraine. It's a scandal for the UK. Nobody cares if the Ukraine government is corrupt, it was notoriously referred to before the war as the most corrupt country in Europe.
[dead]
[flagged]
So you are saying the EU and the US were working together on a coop, where is your evidence for that?
Here’s what really happened: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
I think you’ve been taken in by Russian propaganda.
I agree it was always about resources, that's why it's long been Russian policy to forcibly occupy the iron and coal rich Donbass, starting in tsarist times, continuing during soviet times and reaching its culmination now.
The US didn't have to stage no coup, the Ukrainian people knew very well that Russia would never respect Ukraine's territorial integrity, as they have been proving almost continously for over a century now.
[flagged]
It's amazing the number of lies in this one comment. I'll attempt to list some glaring ones:
> claims 500k dead but his own source instead says that deaths and injuries on both sides are near that number, and it's well known Russians have higher losses
> implying that Russian rule wouldn't be that bad, forgetting to mention that the last time the Russians were in power in Eastern Ukraine they killed over 3 million in less than 2 years
> general lies about "the guys gutting the world" even though post-soviet countries that are now aligned with the west have far outperformed their counterparts economically (except for the ones that have been invaded by Russia)
This sort of drivel can only be written by someone who wilfully ignores recent history.
Try not to use AI next time you will be practicing whataboutism, please
An deal that carries the threat of violence if you don't take it doesn't sound too great to me.
I don't think Yanukovych knew there would be violent riots with rightwing larpers in funny looking helmets.
In hindsight, he should obviously have taken the deal he couldn't refuse instead.
He was removed from parliament unanimously after trying to violently suppress the protests and killing over 100 of his own people
[flagged]
You mean Yanukovich spent most of his presidency hyping and promoting joining the EU and then reneged at the very last moment because he was given 3 billion Euro by Russia.
US together with Pope "staged a coup" in Poland https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/18/world/reagan-and-pope-rep... Poland will be eternally grateful to USA for it, as is shown in opinion polls https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-... Poland always leads whole EU in US approval.
Giving people freedom from russian occupation, best gift ever.
Your description of events sounds like it comes from a domestic abuser.
The people choose the west instead of russia, and russia attacks them in retaliation. "Look what you made me do," says the abuser as they abuse in response, upset their victim prefers someone else. The abuser believes their abuse is righteous, but it is actually illegal and immoral.
In reality, nobody made the abuser abuse. Violence is the response of the unhappy abuser because they're unable to deal with their feelings like a civilized person. Of course the abuser could go away and mind their own business, rather than abusing. They just don't want to. The abuser feels absolutely entitled to absolutely control their victims.
The fact that Ukraine was right to reject the xenophobic psychopath state which denies even the existence of their people is written in the blasted stones and their children's blood spilled on the ground.
If not for one mans ambitions the war would not be. If not for his pride it could not continue.
The government of Ukraine is elected lawfully.
They prople rejected Viktor Yanukovych his deal with Russia and the murder of his citizens. The Ukrainian parliment voted to remove him. Russia responded by trying to take by violence what they could take by treachery.
Viktor Yanukovych supports the mass murder of his own people and the people chose a new less craven leader.
A lot of people think pedophiles are at the bottom of the moral spectrum, that is hard for there to be anything worse, oh boy, if they knew its not even close to the bottom.