But it does amaze me how big the consumer market has become about keyboard switches, it has become insanely hobbyist. From buying a new keyboard I can appreciate how different each key can sound and feel but its become huge.
If you keep to the middle ground, it's not too bad. My journey started by ordering an inexpensive switch testing set with a bunch of Cherry/Gateron switch types, using it as a fidget toy around the desk for a few months, and concluding I liked the Cherry MX clear switches the most (no loud clicking sound, bit more actuating force, easier to feel actuating force than browns).
Result: got a WASD keyboard with clear switches in 2017 and have had no issues since, no sign of any wear, and little need to go down the endless rabbit hole. You're right though, the market for rabbit-holers has somewhat exploded.
For a current day overview of mechanical keyboard switches I don't think buckling-spring is that relevant. Deskthority probably has pages for it though.
Does anyone have experience with carpal tunnel or RSI and mechanical switches? I’ve heard some people recommend ZSA keyboards for ergonomics but I’m unsure if mechanical keys are healthy compared to the softer keys of older ergonomic keyboards like the ones Microsoft made.
Membrane "switches" have a pretty high actuation force all things considered (40-100g+), which is what the older MS keyboards use. There are plenty of mechanical switches that require less force to actuate, and Hall Effect switches can even have an adaptable activation point.
Hall Effect switches are a pretty recent (re)addition to the keyboard market, so it might be difficult to find an out of the box ergo keyboard with HE on them.
Most of them are on gaming keyboards due to the possibility of getting super small actuation and rebound windows for faster input.
So you'd probably need to do some DIY (there are switches available for purchase, might have to do more reasearch).
Microsoft Ergonomic prevented RSI not because of keys, but because of the front raiser bar. It allowed wrists to be more line up with hands, which prevented damage to the nerves in the wrist joint which is really RSI. I wish more keyboards had this feature.
i developed rsi pretty bad in like 2018 and went all in with an ergodox and it didnt help really. true ergo + better posture and actual breaks (and some time off) is the only thing that worked for me
but i will say split keyboard is very nice but ortholinear seemed to reintroduce some strains
i use a normal keyboard with good floating hand posture when typing a lot w no issues these days
Yeah, I've always wondered if there's any basis for the idea that mechanical keyboards prevent RSI. This article doesn't help -- it says that the mechanism by which mechanical keyboards prevent RSI is "hard to explain without getting too technical" and then stumbles over some strange "gym mat" analogy that made no sense t ome.
I had a mechanical keyboard and the keys got sticky and as I was removing them mistakenly removed the switch which was unusually easy to do, now the keyboard is unusable and i need to soldier it back on.
I preferred kv-300h for a long time, but recently got recommended lofree flow (underrepresented low profile stock niche). Now thinking about it sometimes. High-profile feels like a lot of work for fingers, unless you learn to avoid bottom-out. Gosh, even thinking about all these mkb nuances again makes me want to just kv-300h.
You mean Membran Keyboards? While there are membrane keyboards which feel half decent when new, they degrade very fast and especially uneven depending on key usage
Reading mkb community forums for a long time I can tell that this is either self-assurance or blind eye. Switches and mkbds break all the time and some people tend to make/use quick replace whole-switch mounts, which then creates alignment issues etc.
I use three membrane chiclet keyboards since around 2018 that have no wear signs apart from plastic desaturation of a package.
There are good models and bad models, regardless of a type.
Can you name those durable models? I went through a lot of KV-300H because they felt nice, but don't live nearly as long as even a cheap mechanical: I grind through one in a year — by the end of which it looks like it was worked over with sandpaper, and some buttons stop registering key presses.
Nope. But I’ve read some reviews on the recent kv-300hs which stated they may have been “downgraded”, or it depends on a region/factory. Despite that I bought another one this spring in a local hw store for a new workplace and it doesn’t feel any worse yet.
Chiclet like the Apple one? I could never get used to its extremely shallow feel. But I do agree that mechanical isn’t necessarily better than alternatives.
As a competitive FPS player, I can say that it's not just about "changing the actuation point to your liking", but a software feature called "Rapid Trigger" [1].
This thing is here to stay, in the past I've tried all types of mechanical switches (Blue/Brown/Red) and this easily beats them all in competitive FPS, the responsiveness is on another level, and you just can't go back after that.
Hall effect switches are more like the old hotness that fell out of style and is now viable again among the niche of people willing to pay high prices for keyboards.
Good mechanical keyboard can easily cost more than hall effect ones. It got worse when hotswappables came out and paying another hefty sum for just the replacement switches became easier / more acceptable.
Maybe it would be useful to add "keyboard" to the title?
This, typically I'm in favor of using the actual title from the linked site, but in this case it needs some context.
Yeah, my initial reaction was: "Oh, _that_ kind of switches!" I was looking for the part where MAC-addresses and VLAN's were explained ;-)
I was hoping for a compendium of all the types of switches available for use in electronics. :(
I just wanted to find a way to toggle my ceiling lights.
I was expecting a guide to some NSFW adult bedroom antics...
I thought this was about network switches
But it does amaze me how big the consumer market has become about keyboard switches, it has become insanely hobbyist. From buying a new keyboard I can appreciate how different each key can sound and feel but its become huge.
If you keep to the middle ground, it's not too bad. My journey started by ordering an inexpensive switch testing set with a bunch of Cherry/Gateron switch types, using it as a fidget toy around the desk for a few months, and concluding I liked the Cherry MX clear switches the most (no loud clicking sound, bit more actuating force, easier to feel actuating force than browns).
Result: got a WASD keyboard with clear switches in 2017 and have had no issues since, no sign of any wear, and little need to go down the endless rabbit hole. You're right though, the market for rabbit-holers has somewhat exploded.
I thought it was about electrical switches. Even the first paragraph didn't help me disambiguate.
Nintendo switches lol
[dead]
No mention of buckling-spring?
For a current day overview of mechanical keyboard switches I don't think buckling-spring is that relevant. Deskthority probably has pages for it though.
I own a brand-new keyboard that has buckling-springs. You don't need to resurrect an '80s IBM keyboard.
0: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M
dont pretend its not niche tho
Keyboard fandom in general is niche.
Does anyone have experience with carpal tunnel or RSI and mechanical switches? I’ve heard some people recommend ZSA keyboards for ergonomics but I’m unsure if mechanical keys are healthy compared to the softer keys of older ergonomic keyboards like the ones Microsoft made.
Membrane "switches" have a pretty high actuation force all things considered (40-100g+), which is what the older MS keyboards use. There are plenty of mechanical switches that require less force to actuate, and Hall Effect switches can even have an adaptable activation point.
I’m not familiar with Hall effect switches - any recommendations on a keyboard for ergonomic use?
Hall Effect switches are a pretty recent (re)addition to the keyboard market, so it might be difficult to find an out of the box ergo keyboard with HE on them.
Most of them are on gaming keyboards due to the possibility of getting super small actuation and rebound windows for faster input.
So you'd probably need to do some DIY (there are switches available for purchase, might have to do more reasearch).
Microsoft Ergonomic prevented RSI not because of keys, but because of the front raiser bar. It allowed wrists to be more line up with hands, which prevented damage to the nerves in the wrist joint which is really RSI. I wish more keyboards had this feature.
i developed rsi pretty bad in like 2018 and went all in with an ergodox and it didnt help really. true ergo + better posture and actual breaks (and some time off) is the only thing that worked for me
but i will say split keyboard is very nice but ortholinear seemed to reintroduce some strains
i use a normal keyboard with good floating hand posture when typing a lot w no issues these days
What do you mean by true ergo and better posture?
Yeah, I've always wondered if there's any basis for the idea that mechanical keyboards prevent RSI. This article doesn't help -- it says that the mechanism by which mechanical keyboards prevent RSI is "hard to explain without getting too technical" and then stumbles over some strange "gym mat" analogy that made no sense t ome.
carpal tunell is 2015 news or so bottleneck is thinking not typing in programming
It’s still relevant for those who have injuries or pain. It’s not a thing just for programmers.
Keyboard fascination is just a waste of time.
I had a mechanical keyboard and the keys got sticky and as I was removing them mistakenly removed the switch which was unusually easy to do, now the keyboard is unusable and i need to soldier it back on.
You may have a hot-swap style keyboard. The switches are designed to pull out easily in order to change switch types.
Anyone else here prefer just a good old fashioned chiclet style keyboard? I've tried mechanical keyboards before and they don't appeal to me at all.
I preferred kv-300h for a long time, but recently got recommended lofree flow (underrepresented low profile stock niche). Now thinking about it sometimes. High-profile feels like a lot of work for fingers, unless you learn to avoid bottom-out. Gosh, even thinking about all these mkb nuances again makes me want to just kv-300h.
You mean Membran Keyboards? While there are membrane keyboards which feel half decent when new, they degrade very fast and especially uneven depending on key usage
Thus I generally dislike them
Reading mkb community forums for a long time I can tell that this is either self-assurance or blind eye. Switches and mkbds break all the time and some people tend to make/use quick replace whole-switch mounts, which then creates alignment issues etc.
I use three membrane chiclet keyboards since around 2018 that have no wear signs apart from plastic desaturation of a package.
There are good models and bad models, regardless of a type.
Can you name those durable models? I went through a lot of KV-300H because they felt nice, but don't live nearly as long as even a cheap mechanical: I grind through one in a year — by the end of which it looks like it was worked over with sandpaper, and some buttons stop registering key presses.
Nope. But I’ve read some reviews on the recent kv-300hs which stated they may have been “downgraded”, or it depends on a region/factory. Despite that I bought another one this spring in a local hw store for a new workplace and it doesn’t feel any worse yet.
Chiclet like the Apple one? I could never get used to its extremely shallow feel. But I do agree that mechanical isn’t necessarily better than alternatives.
Aren't mag switches the new hotness?
Another semi recent one were optical switches (uses a tiny laser for when to actuate, lowest latency).
Hall Effect is the one that's probably going to stay longer, due to the possibility of changing the actuation point to your liking.
As a competitive FPS player, I can say that it's not just about "changing the actuation point to your liking", but a software feature called "Rapid Trigger" [1].
This thing is here to stay, in the past I've tried all types of mechanical switches (Blue/Brown/Red) and this easily beats them all in competitive FPS, the responsiveness is on another level, and you just can't go back after that.
[1] https://prosettings.net/cdn-cgi/image/dpr=1%2Cf=auto%2Cfit=c...
Hall effect switches are more like the old hotness that fell out of style and is now viable again among the niche of people willing to pay high prices for keyboards.
Good mechanical keyboard can easily cost more than hall effect ones. It got worse when hotswappables came out and paying another hefty sum for just the replacement switches became easier / more acceptable.