This got me curious and it seems that there is known APFS behaviors slowing things down on parallel I/O on same folders [1]
I would suspect that this is related to to the fact that reading/writing dirs have no atomic semantics in POSIX fs, and same directories are easily read/written simultaneously by unrelated processes, but surely is cause to edge cases bugs, especially in a world with backup system based on fs snapshots.
I'm not sure if it's related but recently (last 2 years-ish?) I've noticed some issue with watching files on macOS. I edit a file but the dev server doesn't pick it up for way longer than it should. It's sometimes faster for me to restart the dev server than wait for it to notice the files changed.
I have not dug deeper into this aside from raising my open file limits and closing some apps I thought might be the culprit (but ended up not being the cause).
It's annoying because it's not consistent. The dev server will work just fine for a while then randomly slow down. It sucks because sometimes I spend a decent amount of time trying to figure out why my change/fix/etc isn't working only to realize I haven't been testing updated code (I made a code change and thought it hot-reloaded but it didn't).
File watching is flaky enough that polling based implementations are a better choice. You can stat tens of thousands of files every second, and easily optimize it to check frequently changes files more often. https://esbuild.github.io/api/#watch
APFS snapshots for Time Machine suck so much. They take up a ton of disk space and TM's GUI is horrible, it will just sit there syncing for forever with nonsensical time estimates. Then, once it finishes syncing, it will _eventually_ clean up those old snapshots. I've considered dropping TM completely because of this and sticking with just Backblaze and CarbonCopyCloner instead.
If I exclude my git directories (one of the most important things on my computer) then I really don't see the point of using TM at all with the other backups I do regularly.
Genuinely curious... why do you see the need to back up git?
Even if I don't want to push to a server, I use a different disk or USB as an additional remote in git and push to that. Although I do that only for financial data, so only done once a month so it's not too big a hassle.
Adding a folder to the Time Machine exclusion unfortunately does not exclude it from the local snapshots, it only removes it from the copy it does to the TimeMachine destination volume.
> Backup utilities including Time Machine normally make a snapshot with each backup, and retain them for 24 hours, following which they’re automatically deleted. As snapshots can’t exclude folders in the way that Time Machine can in its backups, if you’ve been working with a couple of 100 GB VMs then they will be retained in snapshots even though you probably exclude them from being backed up.
I exclude node_modules and other dependency folders from backups, but projects are pretty much a key thing I want. I might have online repos, but there's usually local branches I want backed up automatically.
I’m very serious and not kidding but where are these settings? I always thought that Time Machine just eats my Computer whole and in chunks with no option for any customization.
Maybe it’s a combination of two things (a perfect storm):
1) APFS's snapshot feature, driven by Time Machine, adds a heavy tax on the massive number of file writes and deletes performed by pnpm and git.
2) macOS's less efficient handling of parallel I/O negates the speed benefits of modern, concurrent tooling, creating a bottleneck that is particularly severe when combined with the overhead from snapshots
There is very low chance this is "something wrong with APFS on macOS". But there is something wrong for example with "Time Machine" backups reliability and breaking changes. Not supporting perfectly good hardware just to force users to buy new ones is also not nice. For example you can't easily move TM backup between disks or between hfs+ and apfs because time machine on hfs+ use hard links and on apfs snapshots. One time I've lost whole TM backup, not because of drive or filesystem failure but because of TM being unable to manage edge cases which arrise during network backup.
You're right, in the grand scheme of things, buying a new disk every few years isn't a major hardship but obstacle. My point wasn't really about the cost of hardware or not being able to solve problem, but rather the brittleness of the software, documentation and usabillity.
The difficult backup migration is just one symptom of a larger problem: Time Machine isn't robust. It has sharp edges and can fail in ways that are hard to recover from, like the network backup I lost. That lack of reliability and breaking changes not just in backup software but in whole ecosystem is the real issue for me. Apple "obsoletes" things in its own timeframe regardless of userbase. I've got enormous respect for Apple products and people who are building them and with them. I wish Apple would have "LTS" version of MacOS and better documentation - often tools exist but aren't easy accessible.
> There is very low chance this is "something wrong with APFS on macOS".
Why do you consider the chance of that to be low? APFS is functional and I trust to not eat my data, but it isn't a battle tested high performance file system that's done the rounds in the arena like, say, XFS.
It's interesting that both NTFS and APFS have now apparently been declared 'broken' due to performance problems with two very specific applications (Git and NPM), and that the reverse statement, that is's perhaps those applications that are being unreasonable, isn't quite as fashionable.
I mean, I don't use NPM, but I recently copied over some small-ish raw Git repositories between machines, and had several WTF moments when I looked at what was actually going over the wire.
Instead of refactoring two of the planet's most widely-used 'consumer' file systems, perhaps https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.html should be seen as a more reasonable way forward?
I'm with you on this one. Massive IO on directories with many files is only reliable when a single process access to it, which is not the case, fs are by definition open to concurrent IO. Even though it's true that several processes having uncoordinated reading and writing in the same directories is not a typical case, I'm not sure it's something one can afford to ignore.
But in the end both npm and git ends up having mass writing files in their use cases, regardless of meta data that could be put in a sqlite-like db. Making things faster safely really implies having those apps operating on some OS features that would allow of acquiring lock and committing semantics on fs subtrees or equivalent.
Thank you! I knew about WAL but swore all reads paused to avoid being stale. Now that I think about it, that was my workaround to deal with polling for an update that should be there from the app level perspective that knows about a pending write because it’s in memory.
It's not access to the file system in generaly that doesn't work reliably -- it's specifically massive access across thousands of files at the same time by multiple processes.
Sqlite lives inside a single file. I've never heard of any corruption issues in practice, even with thousands of high-throughput reads and writes -- the kinds that are being complained about. Because this is something SQLite is really good at.
I was considering walking down this road, because it's really core to the absurdity of this thread, innit?
But, the original post sort of handwaves about what pathological filesystem use is.
The examples they chose (git & npm) imply # of files.
I posit that as easy as it was to handwave that SQLite is obviously superior for npm/git than using N files, it'll be equally easy to handwave that it won't be a problem because SQLite is one file instead of many.
YMMV. In my experience, concurrent process access to SQLite databases is a one-way ticket to database corruption city. I’ve not had the same problems with single-process concurrent access.
Doesn’t this just lead to the world where every application has its own specific schema and we lose any ability to operate on files in generic manner? So basically like iOS, and I don’t see many people using iOS as their development environment.
Using a second partition D: is already twice as fast at small-file-writes compared to the system partition C:. This was on Windows 10 with both partitions using NTFS on the same SSD, and everything else on default settings.
This is because C: has additional file system filters for system integrity that are not present on other drives; and also because C: has 8.3 name compatibility enabled by default, but additional NTFS partitions have that disabled. (so if your filenames are longer than the 8.3 format, Windows has to write twice the number of directory entries)
It's shocking how much performance you gain by temporarily turning off Windows Defender. I had a local disk to disk copy that the Windows File Transfer dialog estimated was going to finish in 10 hours after it settled down. It wasn't even that much data, just a few hundred GB, but that consisted of a great number of small files. On a hunch I tried disabling Windows Defender and the estimate dropped to about 30 minutes, and in the end it was spot on.
Anti-virus kills small file IO. I work with a windows product that can deal with huge amounts of code files. With large enterprise that demands AV is on in most places the performance loss is pretty staggering, were you can easily lose 50% of your servers capacity per measurement interval.
More people need to know how this, it is absolutely bonkers how much perf you lose for each file open operation to defender and its kin.
Even excluding directories (like D:\MyProject) from defender isn't a full solution, the fs filter will still use the file handle to do lookup of the file path to see if it is in an excluded directory (at least on win10), but excluding an entire drive (like D:\) does solve this.
I have found that adding git.exe to the process exclusion list makes the biggest difference here, although git is still slow when dealing with lots of files, it goes from unbearable to bearable.
I have had reports from my colleagues that some ruby build or something is much faster when using a ubuntu virtual machine on their M3 MacOS laptops. I don't remember the numbers but it was upto 5x faster in the VM
- the claim that pathological filesystem behavior => git/npm/whoever should use a SQLite DB as a flat file rather than having multiple files.
- no pushback
- the reply w/"yes, definitely, by shoving all the files into a SQLite DB, concurrency & contention issues simply disappear"
There's a sort of comic "turtles all the way down" aspect to it.
Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then? (A: because it would suffer from all of the same problems, except worse, because it is not a filesystem)
Not necessarily sqlite, but rocksdb is looking like promising option for foundational storage system. You have things like zenfs which runs rocksdb directly on nvme storage, and then you have lot of higher level systems on top of it like Cephs BlueStore and mysql/maria MyRocks. It is not much of a stretch to imagine whole OS built around it
What is notable here is that it would be both better aligned with how the underlying storage hardware works, and simultaneously also offers more usable interface for applications.
It is pretty apparent that the biggest reason why we commonly use posixy files is inertia rather than them being very good fit for anything these days
> Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then?
One major reason not to is that there needs to be a guaranteed way to free up space, e.g. by deleting a file, or doing something similar. Currently SQLite doesn't provide any means to reliably reclaim space without allocating even more first.
Also the API is quite different, e.g. if you can write(2) a single byte at a time if you really want to, and it's relatively fast compared to doing e.g. an INSERT each time, since it goes to the temp VFS buffer first
> Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then?
A lot of people have proposed exactly this, that modern filesystems ought to be relational databases at the directory/metadata level.
It would be amazing to be able to interface with the file system using SQL and have the power of transactions.
> A: because it would suffer from all of the same problems, except worse, because it is not a filesystem
Not really. Database technologies really are far more advanced in many ways. It would not suffer from many filesystem problems, and would actually be better in many ways.
This is quite a claim to me, but only because the Vista FS died on these shoals, and because it seems we’ve had plenty of years for this idea to reach some sort of practical implementation and there’s none that’s in wide use that I’m aware of.
I think compatibility is just too much of an issue. Creating an entirely new filesystem like that, with next-generation tools around things like transactions, while keeping backwards compatibility with every quirk of every way things operate currently... it feels like an almost impossible architectural challenge. While if you just started from scratch with brand-new API's, existing applications wouldn't work with it.
Still, it doesn't stop people constantly bringing it up as a wish. Technically it would be amazing, and it wouldn't be hard to build. It just feels impossible to figure out how to migrate to.
I don’t really get it but I’m p sure it’s one of those things where I’m being a know-nothing engineer. (Been on mobile my whole life, 2009-2015 I owed primarily to SQLite-based app, p much 0 filesystem knowledge beyond the horrible analogy incoming)
The unfiltered reaction I have is “the filesystem is essentially Map<String, ByteData>, how would adding another abstraction layer _help_? How could it be impossible to migrate?” - you’ve been really informative, ignore my kvetching here, the kvetching side firmly holds if this was such a great idea _someone_ would have landed it _somewhere_ or there’d be more clear benefits stated than handwaving git and npm got it horribly wrong or more clear problems stated than “we don’t know how to migrate to it if we did it”
I think it might be a lot more than that, on Windows and macOS.
Edit: Yeah, 5x boost on Win10. I wish author had included XP for reference!
Edit 2: Author achieved 14x boost with a certain SQLite mode, over Windows 10.
> The third chart shows that reading blob content out of SQLite can be twice as fast as reading from individual files on disk for Mac and Android, and an amazing ten times faster for Windows.
That might not be a filesystem issue. If NPM pulling a complex dependency tree down spawns a lot of sub-processes then it'll hit the same problem many build operations have when transplanted from Unix-a-likes to Windows (via cygwin, for instance): building up and tearing down processes is relatively expensive under Windows. Under many Unix-a-like systems forking a process is generally not much more expensive than starting a new thread, which is why multi-process solutions are more popular away from Windows (if the cost of using processes over threads is low, then it is worth paying it to get the reduced complexity of not needing to worry about thread safety).
Assuming you are using WSL2 (which is essentially Linux in a VM, unlike WSL1 which was a compatibility layer with processes running more directly on Windows) you will see this difference (any performance cost imposed by the VM will be small compared to the difference in process spin-up costs).
I don't think that this will apply to git, though.
This got me curious and it seems that there is known APFS behaviors slowing things down on parallel I/O on same folders [1]
I would suspect that this is related to to the fact that reading/writing dirs have no atomic semantics in POSIX fs, and same directories are easily read/written simultaneously by unrelated processes, but surely is cause to edge cases bugs, especially in a world with backup system based on fs snapshots.
This is a sad state of affairs.
https://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2018/10/29/global-kernel-locks...
I'm not sure if it's related but recently (last 2 years-ish?) I've noticed some issue with watching files on macOS. I edit a file but the dev server doesn't pick it up for way longer than it should. It's sometimes faster for me to restart the dev server than wait for it to notice the files changed.
I have not dug deeper into this aside from raising my open file limits and closing some apps I thought might be the culprit (but ended up not being the cause).
It's annoying because it's not consistent. The dev server will work just fine for a while then randomly slow down. It sucks because sometimes I spend a decent amount of time trying to figure out why my change/fix/etc isn't working only to realize I haven't been testing updated code (I made a code change and thought it hot-reloaded but it didn't).
File watching is flaky enough that polling based implementations are a better choice. You can stat tens of thousands of files every second, and easily optimize it to check frequently changes files more often. https://esbuild.github.io/api/#watch
I think it’s much more likely that I/O syscalls on MacOS are the culprit of slowness than APFS. I don’t see any entries in the table against HFS+.
That would also match with the workaround of using a Linux VM (assuming that VM disk i/o is bypassing the relevant part of the darwin i/o subsystem)
node/npm operations are vastly slower for me on docker with a linux vm, I have tested this before.
APFS does suck though, don't get me wrong
edit: I just tested, 36s for an `npm i` on a decently large project I have locally, 46s with an overlay fs
Can also confirm. We’ve had some client projects that had npm inside of containers and those were horribly slow on macOS.
Not an overlay fs, a VM writing to its own virtual block device.
I should have been more specific, I tested with:
`rm -rf node_modules && docker run --rm -ti -v $PWD:/app node:20.19.0-alpine3.20 sh -c "cd /app && time npm i"`
So an overlay FS (if I'm understanding you/the OP correctly), not the VM's disk
It is apfs snapshots for Time Machine. Exclude your git folders from time machine and the perf of everything should improve.
APFS snapshots for Time Machine suck so much. They take up a ton of disk space and TM's GUI is horrible, it will just sit there syncing for forever with nonsensical time estimates. Then, once it finishes syncing, it will _eventually_ clean up those old snapshots. I've considered dropping TM completely because of this and sticking with just Backblaze and CarbonCopyCloner instead.
If I exclude my git directories (one of the most important things on my computer) then I really don't see the point of using TM at all with the other backups I do regularly.
Genuinely curious... why do you see the need to back up git?
Even if I don't want to push to a server, I use a different disk or USB as an additional remote in git and push to that. Although I do that only for financial data, so only done once a month so it's not too big a hassle.
I have had good experience with Arq backup 7
Despite its apparent opaqueness, TM is reasonably transparent for the everyday Mac user
Yeah TM has its shortcomings. I went with Arq (non-affiliated) instead.
Adding a folder to the Time Machine exclusion unfortunately does not exclude it from the local snapshots, it only removes it from the copy it does to the TimeMachine destination volume.
From https://eclecticlight.co/2025/10/02/why-did-that-macos-upgra...
> Backup utilities including Time Machine normally make a snapshot with each backup, and retain them for 24 hours, following which they’re automatically deleted. As snapshots can’t exclude folders in the way that Time Machine can in its backups, if you’ve been working with a couple of 100 GB VMs then they will be retained in snapshots even though you probably exclude them from being backed up.
I exclude node_modules and other dependency folders from backups, but projects are pretty much a key thing I want. I might have online repos, but there's usually local branches I want backed up automatically.
I’m very serious and not kidding but where are these settings? I always thought that Time Machine just eats my Computer whole and in chunks with no option for any customization.
Go to Time Machine Settings, click the very prominent Options button, and add things to the "Exclude from Backups" list.
It still do no have the `.git` or any other pattern for that matter. I do can add a while folder, though.
Are you able to wildcard excludes?
Doesn’t macOS have dtrace?
Couldn’t these tests be instrumented to give a deeper dive into what may be happening here?
Maybe it’s a combination of two things (a perfect storm):
1) APFS's snapshot feature, driven by Time Machine, adds a heavy tax on the massive number of file writes and deletes performed by pnpm and git.
2) macOS's less efficient handling of parallel I/O negates the speed benefits of modern, concurrent tooling, creating a bottleneck that is particularly severe when combined with the overhead from snapshots
There is very low chance this is "something wrong with APFS on macOS". But there is something wrong for example with "Time Machine" backups reliability and breaking changes. Not supporting perfectly good hardware just to force users to buy new ones is also not nice. For example you can't easily move TM backup between disks or between hfs+ and apfs because time machine on hfs+ use hard links and on apfs snapshots. One time I've lost whole TM backup, not because of drive or filesystem failure but because of TM being unable to manage edge cases which arrise during network backup.
Is it that bad to buy a new backup disk when you change file systems? It's been many years ago since HFS+ got retired.
You're right, in the grand scheme of things, buying a new disk every few years isn't a major hardship but obstacle. My point wasn't really about the cost of hardware or not being able to solve problem, but rather the brittleness of the software, documentation and usabillity.
The difficult backup migration is just one symptom of a larger problem: Time Machine isn't robust. It has sharp edges and can fail in ways that are hard to recover from, like the network backup I lost. That lack of reliability and breaking changes not just in backup software but in whole ecosystem is the real issue for me. Apple "obsoletes" things in its own timeframe regardless of userbase. I've got enormous respect for Apple products and people who are building them and with them. I wish Apple would have "LTS" version of MacOS and better documentation - often tools exist but aren't easy accessible.
> There is very low chance this is "something wrong with APFS on macOS".
Why do you consider the chance of that to be low? APFS is functional and I trust to not eat my data, but it isn't a battle tested high performance file system that's done the rounds in the arena like, say, XFS.
How do we know it's not something related more to how Node.js handles I/O? Repo uses only JS
The clean test is just an invocation of git clean, and shows the same kind of variation across operating systems, file systems, etc.
It's even worse, it's not excluded that it might be a pure pnpm issue
It's interesting that both NTFS and APFS have now apparently been declared 'broken' due to performance problems with two very specific applications (Git and NPM), and that the reverse statement, that is's perhaps those applications that are being unreasonable, isn't quite as fashionable.
I mean, I don't use NPM, but I recently copied over some small-ish raw Git repositories between machines, and had several WTF moments when I looked at what was actually going over the wire.
Instead of refactoring two of the planet's most widely-used 'consumer' file systems, perhaps https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.html should be seen as a more reasonable way forward?
I'm with you on this one. Massive IO on directories with many files is only reliable when a single process access to it, which is not the case, fs are by definition open to concurrent IO. Even though it's true that several processes having uncoordinated reading and writing in the same directories is not a typical case, I'm not sure it's something one can afford to ignore.
But in the end both npm and git ends up having mass writing files in their use cases, regardless of meta data that could be put in a sqlite-like db. Making things faster safely really implies having those apps operating on some OS features that would allow of acquiring lock and committing semantics on fs subtrees or equivalent.
I'm curious:
Lets take that given, i.e. massive IO works reliably only when a single process has access.
How will SQLite handle concurrent access by multiple processes when git/npm/whoever switches over to it?
(A: It doesn't, even in a single process, you need to obtain a global lock to write while all readers pause.)
Your "A" hasn't been true for over a decade if you use WAL mode:
https://sqlite.org/wal.html
Readers don't have to pause.
Thank you! I knew about WAL but swore all reads paused to avoid being stale. Now that I think about it, that was my workaround to deal with polling for an update that should be there from the app level perspective that knows about a pending write because it’s in memory.
Except the statement above is that parallel access to the file system does not work reliably. Sqlite lives on the file system.
It's not access to the file system in generaly that doesn't work reliably -- it's specifically massive access across thousands of files at the same time by multiple processes.
Sqlite lives inside a single file. I've never heard of any corruption issues in practice, even with thousands of high-throughput reads and writes -- the kinds that are being complained about. Because this is something SQLite is really good at.
I was considering walking down this road, because it's really core to the absurdity of this thread, innit?
But, the original post sort of handwaves about what pathological filesystem use is.
The examples they chose (git & npm) imply # of files.
I posit that as easy as it was to handwave that SQLite is obviously superior for npm/git than using N files, it'll be equally easy to handwave that it won't be a problem because SQLite is one file instead of many.
YMMV. In my experience, concurrent process access to SQLite databases is a one-way ticket to database corruption city. I’ve not had the same problems with single-process concurrent access.
This just sounds like you haven't been using transactions. SQLite upholds transaction guarantees.
Doesn’t this just lead to the world where every application has its own specific schema and we lose any ability to operate on files in generic manner? So basically like iOS, and I don’t see many people using iOS as their development environment.
"NTFS" is fine, the Windows File System Filters are the culprit of I/O performance problems [with many small files/requests] on Windows.
Using a second partition D: is already twice as fast at small-file-writes compared to the system partition C:. This was on Windows 10 with both partitions using NTFS on the same SSD, and everything else on default settings.
This is because C: has additional file system filters for system integrity that are not present on other drives; and also because C: has 8.3 name compatibility enabled by default, but additional NTFS partitions have that disabled. (so if your filenames are longer than the 8.3 format, Windows has to write twice the number of directory entries)
It's shocking how much performance you gain by temporarily turning off Windows Defender. I had a local disk to disk copy that the Windows File Transfer dialog estimated was going to finish in 10 hours after it settled down. It wasn't even that much data, just a few hundred GB, but that consisted of a great number of small files. On a hunch I tried disabling Windows Defender and the estimate dropped to about 30 minutes, and in the end it was spot on.
Anti-virus kills small file IO. I work with a windows product that can deal with huge amounts of code files. With large enterprise that demands AV is on in most places the performance loss is pretty staggering, were you can easily lose 50% of your servers capacity per measurement interval.
More people need to know how this, it is absolutely bonkers how much perf you lose for each file open operation to defender and its kin.
Even excluding directories (like D:\MyProject) from defender isn't a full solution, the fs filter will still use the file handle to do lookup of the file path to see if it is in an excluded directory (at least on win10), but excluding an entire drive (like D:\) does solve this.
I have found that adding git.exe to the process exclusion list makes the biggest difference here, although git is still slow when dealing with lots of files, it goes from unbearable to bearable.
I have had reports from my colleagues that some ruby build or something is much faster when using a ubuntu virtual machine on their M3 MacOS laptops. I don't remember the numbers but it was upto 5x faster in the VM
I had Ubuntu be 6-7x faster than Windows 10, running Ubuntu in VirtualBox.
I am quite surprised by:
- the claim that pathological filesystem behavior => git/npm/whoever should use a SQLite DB as a flat file rather than having multiple files.
- no pushback
- the reply w/"yes, definitely, by shoving all the files into a SQLite DB, concurrency & contention issues simply disappear"
There's a sort of comic "turtles all the way down" aspect to it.
Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then? (A: because it would suffer from all of the same problems, except worse, because it is not a filesystem)
Not necessarily sqlite, but rocksdb is looking like promising option for foundational storage system. You have things like zenfs which runs rocksdb directly on nvme storage, and then you have lot of higher level systems on top of it like Cephs BlueStore and mysql/maria MyRocks. It is not much of a stretch to imagine whole OS built around it
What is notable here is that it would be both better aligned with how the underlying storage hardware works, and simultaneously also offers more usable interface for applications.
It is pretty apparent that the biggest reason why we commonly use posixy files is inertia rather than them being very good fit for anything these days
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RocksDB#Integration
https://github.com/westerndigitalcorporation/zenfs
> Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then?
One major reason not to is that there needs to be a guaranteed way to free up space, e.g. by deleting a file, or doing something similar. Currently SQLite doesn't provide any means to reliably reclaim space without allocating even more first.
Also the API is quite different, e.g. if you can write(2) a single byte at a time if you really want to, and it's relatively fast compared to doing e.g. an INSERT each time, since it goes to the temp VFS buffer first
> Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then?
A lot of people have proposed exactly this, that modern filesystems ought to be relational databases at the directory/metadata level.
It would be amazing to be able to interface with the file system using SQL and have the power of transactions.
> A: because it would suffer from all of the same problems, except worse, because it is not a filesystem
Not really. Database technologies really are far more advanced in many ways. It would not suffer from many filesystem problems, and would actually be better in many ways.
This is quite a claim to me, but only because the Vista FS died on these shoals, and because it seems we’ve had plenty of years for this idea to reach some sort of practical implementation and there’s none that’s in wide use that I’m aware of.
I think compatibility is just too much of an issue. Creating an entirely new filesystem like that, with next-generation tools around things like transactions, while keeping backwards compatibility with every quirk of every way things operate currently... it feels like an almost impossible architectural challenge. While if you just started from scratch with brand-new API's, existing applications wouldn't work with it.
Still, it doesn't stop people constantly bringing it up as a wish. Technically it would be amazing, and it wouldn't be hard to build. It just feels impossible to figure out how to migrate to.
I don’t really get it but I’m p sure it’s one of those things where I’m being a know-nothing engineer. (Been on mobile my whole life, 2009-2015 I owed primarily to SQLite-based app, p much 0 filesystem knowledge beyond the horrible analogy incoming)
The unfiltered reaction I have is “the filesystem is essentially Map<String, ByteData>, how would adding another abstraction layer _help_? How could it be impossible to migrate?” - you’ve been really informative, ignore my kvetching here, the kvetching side firmly holds if this was such a great idea _someone_ would have landed it _somewhere_ or there’d be more clear benefits stated than handwaving git and npm got it horribly wrong or more clear problems stated than “we don’t know how to migrate to it if we did it”
See also: SQLite: 35% Faster Than File System
https://sqlite.org/fasterthanfs.html
I think it might be a lot more than that, on Windows and macOS.
Edit: Yeah, 5x boost on Win10. I wish author had included XP for reference!
Edit 2: Author achieved 14x boost with a certain SQLite mode, over Windows 10.
> The third chart shows that reading blob content out of SQLite can be twice as fast as reading from individual files on disk for Mac and Android, and an amazing ten times faster for Windows.
> Why not just have the filesystem be a SQLite DB then?
Already exists: https://github.com/narumatt/sqlitefs
No idea what the performance is like, though… it uses FUSE, so that is going to add some overhead compared to an in-kernel filesystem
It's shockingly faster in WSL too.
That might not be a filesystem issue. If NPM pulling a complex dependency tree down spawns a lot of sub-processes then it'll hit the same problem many build operations have when transplanted from Unix-a-likes to Windows (via cygwin, for instance): building up and tearing down processes is relatively expensive under Windows. Under many Unix-a-like systems forking a process is generally not much more expensive than starting a new thread, which is why multi-process solutions are more popular away from Windows (if the cost of using processes over threads is low, then it is worth paying it to get the reduced complexity of not needing to worry about thread safety).
Assuming you are using WSL2 (which is essentially Linux in a VM, unlike WSL1 which was a compatibility layer with processes running more directly on Windows) you will see this difference (any performance cost imposed by the VM will be small compared to the difference in process spin-up costs).
I don't think that this will apply to git, though.
Is it also faster when you use a host OS dir? (WSL can write to those, and it might still bypass a lot of the filter stuff.)