As the original author of the current generation of the Pebble Appstore back in Pebble early days, I made a very intentional decision to move almost all logic client side to make it easy for people to archive and self host with their own API server or json snapshots of the existing API. I did this specifically so in the event Pebble infra ever went down the community could easily do their own thing, and local copies embedded in apps would keep working from cache offline, though I never disclosed this as a big reason at the time.
It is awesome to see that decision paid off, and the codebase has long outlived the original company and still giving our original customers (and soon new ones!) value.
In case anyone asks, I would like to state for the record that all the appstore code before Rebble modifications was and has always been AGPL.
> One other great thing that Rebble did was in 2017 - they archived and started hosting a copy of the Pebble Appstore, before the servers were shut down. New apps uploaded by developers since 2017 have also been popping up!
Aah, is this how all previous apps were saved and are now available again? That's pretty neat if so!
Old Pebble watches are still very useful due to the Rebble community. I am still rocking my OG Pebble to this day because of them, so they get all the kudos, here.
In fact, because my old one still works for my needs, it's making it difficult for me to invest in a new Pebble, despite wanting to support the project. Part of that is the idea of upgrading for the sake of upgrading directly opposes my ethos of keeping as many electronic devices out of landfills as possible, but part of that is also straight up nostalgia that I get to experience every day when I use what essentially amounted to the perfect watch for me.
I'm not the person you asked, but on my OG Pebble, I get about 2 full days of battery on a full charge. However, that's down from about 4 or 5 that I recall from early adoption of the device.
The battery is clearly unhealthy, but hanging on. When I charge my old Pebble, after about 15 minutes or so, it claims to be fully charged. It isn't. If I take it off the charge after only 15 minutes, it will show a full charge, but deplete rapidly, usually within about 20 hours. If I leave it on the charge for a few hours, then use it, I get 2 solid days or sometimes a bit more than that.
My OG model is also one of the originals that does _not_ have the fours screws in the back, making it impossible to change the battery should it finally fail. A few years back, I picked up some original Pebbles on eBay for cheapr since the batteries would no longer hold a charge on those, all models that did not have the four screws on the back, just to see if I could find a way to open them clean. Every attempt I made failed, damaging the display and housing.
If you want to try an old Pebble, find one of the ones with the screws on the back panel and you can buy fresh batteries that will fit. Or get an old Pebble Time/Steel model, which are easier to maintain. I see them go on eBay for between $30 - $50 USD and maybe like $10 USD for a new battery. That's nothing for a basics smartwatch with a cool history.
> No smartwatch on the market since the original Pebble watches offers this combination of features…until today!
Is that a lie? What about Garmin Watches?
Sure Google/Samsung/Apple Watches are not "Long battery life", because they are not "Always on e-paper screen", but I feel like Garmin Watches are.
Obviously some Garmin Watches are pretty expensive, like Fenix (I have not used it since I switched to Apple Watch), but there are ~200USD watches as well https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/741137/ with 2 weeks battery life, custom apps, screens, and even GPS.
My Garmin (Forerunner 255 Music) feels like it's designed by a committee that uses their own product only while working jira tickets, and has never used it in anger.
On paper, it should feel like my old Pebble did. In reality it's clumsy and poorly thought-out. I look for ways to use it less, not more. I can't wait to replace it when the Pebble ships.
I guess I don't use my Garmin Instinct Crossover to its full extent, but I have found it pretty ok for the stuff I did do with it, and I like that it looks like a regular watch instead of a smartwatch.
I'd love a watch that lasts a month on a single charge and stays readable under bright sunlight.
So I checked out Garmin Instinct Crossover.
It ticks all the boxes and probably has many more great features I'm not even aware of. But honestly, I'm after a watch not a wrist-mounted blunt weapon.
Transflective memory cell lcd's are amazing technology for the price they cost and the power they use. You trade some viberance for that but I'd call that acceptable tradeoff for always on.
The "epaper" branding is Sharp's idea. And "epaper" has been used for all kinds of things which are not the technology eInk has developed and popularized.
Yes. E-paper is a specific name/brand used for transreflective LCDs. If I remember correctly, Sharp started calling it so. E-ink and e-paper can be called electronic paper, but e-paper isn't usually e-ink and e-paper usually is LCD.
So, Pebble Time's LCD is indeed e-paper, but is not e-ink.
E-Ink is a specific company’s name which can’t be used to describe the same display technology when used by any other company.
Today e paper is widely understood to mean the display technology which companies like e ink and waveshare use for displays which don’t need power to retain an image.
You’re right that historically it’s been confusing. Historically e ink was the only company making these displays since it was all patented so using their brand name as the technology name worked better back then than it does today.
Pebble does not have GPS at all. You don't have to use GPS on the watch, if you don't need to. You have an option to choose to use it, if you want to. Garmin watches ~2 weeks just as a smart watch, 8-50 hours with GPS on. But you will not have it on, unless you need it for a specific workout.
Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me.
If I am buying a smart/tracking watch today, I want these things from it:
- Great battery life
- HRM (with decent accuracy; doesn't have to pass those "accuracy tests" though)
- GPS (with extremely good accuracy and yes, it has to pass those accuracy tests for GPS. And no, if I turn it ON and use it and the battery dies quickly, I won't hold it against you - that's supposed to happen)
- Do not track me - do not send any data to anywhere unless I specifically want it
- Do not need a phone to be connected to function - let me export data later if I choose to (hell, if this is the only way - I don't mind - BT not being used always isn't so bad - saves a bit of battery; if you need me to do this via a USB type C cable later, I don't mind that either)
That's all!
-----
If you don't have these features, I don't really mind:
- Show me the incoming call on the screen. - Give me a way to reject or silence it. If I want to answer that call, then I'll reach out to my phone anyway.
- Maybe show the time and day if I tap it or I am fine if it's always shown
- Preferably don't show me notifications from apps in general and if you do - give a very granular way to disable specific apps (this might already be possible)
- Please sell a non-touchscreen option (but I can live with one)
- Do not try to be the smartphone or replicate it somehow and end up becoming a Frankenstein in both size and spirit
- Maybe keep it lightweight?
PS. And, for the love of god, do not ever try to hardcode special chargers/cables like Philips does for their trimmers. Bas----ds sell different cables and different chargers for two trimmer models released in the same year very close to each other and in close price ranges fulfilling similar functions.
> Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me.
> GPS
> Do not need a phone to be connected to function
I don't really think you're in the target demographic for a pebble at all. It sounds like you want a standalone device that's essentially a smartphone on your wrist. I know you say you don't want it to be a smartphone, but if you want battery-life, a GPS, and phone independence, that's the product you're going to get.
Pebble is (and was) more of a smartphone companion, it has basically no smart functionality on its own.
I suspect you might not be aware that certain things can be "turned off" on a smartwatch or a computing device, mobile or otherwise. But if you knew, then I do not know why you still made this comment.
I have been using Apple Watch since series 0. I believe I switched from Garmin fenix 3. I feel like at that time Fenix had a lot of issues, I remember there were some about the maps, maybe they did not even had them at that time. And I was really into hiking. So thought that Apple Watch could be a better watch. Workouts were nice, listening music from the watch was a good addition.
I have not tried new fenix watches. And I would assume they are the same good as Apple Watches as well. But I do like my Apple Watch Ultra (2 or 3, whatever was released this year)
My conspiracy theory is there is something inherently rotten at Apple and it is simply not possible to build a smartwatch that never mind can match the feature set of the apple watch but also the levels of battery efficiency on the iPhone paired with a smartwatch different than the Apple Watch. I don't know this for a fact but I am sure multiple cheap ish Chinese watch vendors would not choose to intentionally drain the iPhone battery if they could avoid it.
It's not just a theory. It's well documented that Apple has a bunch of APIs and protocols (like AirPods proprietary low latency wireless instead of Bluetooth, NFC was not allowed until years after Apple Pay) that are not available to 3rd party developers. They will sometimes open things up after they've given their own products years of head start because apparently owning most of the ecosystem and having undying brand loyalty from their users isn't enough.
Actually for many years even to build regular Bluetooth devices that did anything besides audio, you needed to add a special chip (Made for iPhone chip) to your hardware to verify that it was an authorized Apple Accessory. Pebble had one, but any 3rd party apps that wanted to send data to the watch (like Uber app, sports apps, random indie apps) had to get allow listed to communicate with accessory devices like Pebble.
I think there’s a simpler explanation. Apple’s always uses a type of product metric that most companies don’t use. Those competitor products don’t care about phone battery drain, so they aren’t even trying to do anything about it.
I mean, it's Apple's whole strategy to create an ecosystem of devices that all work really well with each other. Having had some insight about how chinese manufacturing operates on the low end it's much simpler than that, they just don't really care about things like not draining battery life. Their products are built to a price point and they are aware of that. If it could be built to the same price point without heavily draining battery life then it would be.
I was able to develop apps for Garmin Fenix 3, which was released in 2015 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/160512/#specs it already supported building apps for the watch. They also had a funny name for the language they built, something like "Gorilla language" or something similar.
Love philosophy and the story bringing it back. I really liked the originals, but today I don’t find the design appealing - I’m sure some of you do ofc.
I'm not sure if the best example, but what I can think of atm — Looking at what Teenage Engineering is doing (copy Dieter Rams), I find their products fun and they feel premium. I think a design refresh for pebble could make a big difference.
Probably hard to think about re-design at this stage, and I do hope it keeps gaining momentum and support to grow.
Not perhaps exactly what you're looking for, but Nothing's smartwatches might scratch that itch. They've got honestly gigantic bezels, but they do a very commendable job on making it seem done purposefully done.
> Probably hard to think about re-design at this stage
They did redesign the Pebble Time 2, so that may be more to your liking. Sadly as one who still loves the original design, it lost its appeal to me, but perhaps my loss could be your gain on this one.
I agree, design sensibilities have changed. Like you I would love something a bit more utilitarian and clean. It would be a nice contrast to everything else out there.
I would in general agree with you. Although I do feel TE have some design flaws regarding structural quality that Braun didn't have and watches would struggle with having.
I haven't used my pebble for years, but as I don't have a smartwatch, I might bring it back. Do the iOs integrations (calls, messages, etc.) still work as they did? I remember that runkeeper would display data to the watch while running.
Good time to bring it back. You used to have to sideload the iOS app for years and the new app makes using an old Pebble with an iPhone so much easier. :) I've been using the app for a few weeks and it generally works well but not everything is already functional. No voice replies, no health tracking, no canned messages, yet, for example.
As the original author of the current generation of the Pebble Appstore back in Pebble early days, I made a very intentional decision to move almost all logic client side to make it easy for people to archive and self host with their own API server or json snapshots of the existing API. I did this specifically so in the event Pebble infra ever went down the community could easily do their own thing, and local copies embedded in apps would keep working from cache offline, though I never disclosed this as a big reason at the time.
It is awesome to see that decision paid off, and the codebase has long outlived the original company and still giving our original customers (and soon new ones!) value.
In case anyone asks, I would like to state for the record that all the appstore code before Rebble modifications was and has always been AGPL.
> One other great thing that Rebble did was in 2017 - they archived and started hosting a copy of the Pebble Appstore, before the servers were shut down. New apps uploaded by developers since 2017 have also been popping up!
Aah, is this how all previous apps were saved and are now available again? That's pretty neat if so!
Old Pebble watches are still very useful due to the Rebble community. I am still rocking my OG Pebble to this day because of them, so they get all the kudos, here.
In fact, because my old one still works for my needs, it's making it difficult for me to invest in a new Pebble, despite wanting to support the project. Part of that is the idea of upgrading for the sake of upgrading directly opposes my ethos of keeping as many electronic devices out of landfills as possible, but part of that is also straight up nostalgia that I get to experience every day when I use what essentially amounted to the perfect watch for me.
I was in the same camp. I ordered one anyway as I figured my pebble's battery couldn't last much longer... Could it?
How many days does it last now?
I'm not the person you asked, but on my OG Pebble, I get about 2 full days of battery on a full charge. However, that's down from about 4 or 5 that I recall from early adoption of the device.
The battery is clearly unhealthy, but hanging on. When I charge my old Pebble, after about 15 minutes or so, it claims to be fully charged. It isn't. If I take it off the charge after only 15 minutes, it will show a full charge, but deplete rapidly, usually within about 20 hours. If I leave it on the charge for a few hours, then use it, I get 2 solid days or sometimes a bit more than that.
My OG model is also one of the originals that does _not_ have the fours screws in the back, making it impossible to change the battery should it finally fail. A few years back, I picked up some original Pebbles on eBay for cheapr since the batteries would no longer hold a charge on those, all models that did not have the four screws on the back, just to see if I could find a way to open them clean. Every attempt I made failed, damaging the display and housing.
If you want to try an old Pebble, find one of the ones with the screws on the back panel and you can buy fresh batteries that will fit. Or get an old Pebble Time/Steel model, which are easier to maintain. I see them go on eBay for between $30 - $50 USD and maybe like $10 USD for a new battery. That's nothing for a basics smartwatch with a cool history.
Why not buy a new Pebble and gift it to a watchless friend?
Yes (and they've been available more or less all along from Rebble - they rebuilt and hosted big parts of the backend I believe).
> No smartwatch on the market since the original Pebble watches offers this combination of features…until today!
Is that a lie? What about Garmin Watches?
Sure Google/Samsung/Apple Watches are not "Long battery life", because they are not "Always on e-paper screen", but I feel like Garmin Watches are.
Obviously some Garmin Watches are pretty expensive, like Fenix (I have not used it since I switched to Apple Watch), but there are ~200USD watches as well https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/741137/ with 2 weeks battery life, custom apps, screens, and even GPS.
My Garmin (Forerunner 255 Music) feels like it's designed by a committee that uses their own product only while working jira tickets, and has never used it in anger.
On paper, it should feel like my old Pebble did. In reality it's clumsy and poorly thought-out. I look for ways to use it less, not more. I can't wait to replace it when the Pebble ships.
I guess I don't use my Garmin Instinct Crossover to its full extent, but I have found it pretty ok for the stuff I did do with it, and I like that it looks like a regular watch instead of a smartwatch.
I'd love a watch that lasts a month on a single charge and stays readable under bright sunlight.
So I checked out Garmin Instinct Crossover.
It ticks all the boxes and probably has many more great features I'm not even aware of. But honestly, I'm after a watch not a wrist-mounted blunt weapon.
I've been using various Garmin watches for ages and I agree. The hardware is great, but the software is honestly very lackluster.
It's laggy, clumsy, difficult to make apps for, and just not very smart. Especially for someone like me who doesn't even use it for sports.
The pebble wasn’t an epaper display either. It was just a dull low power lcd.
Transflective memory cell lcd's are amazing technology for the price they cost and the power they use. You trade some viberance for that but I'd call that acceptable tradeoff for always on.
The "epaper" branding is Sharp's idea. And "epaper" has been used for all kinds of things which are not the technology eInk has developed and popularized.
But e-paper _is_ LCD, e-ink isn't.
No? Wikipedia says E-ink is a specific brand of e-paper, and e-paper isn't LCD. Right?
Yes. E-paper is a specific name/brand used for transreflective LCDs. If I remember correctly, Sharp started calling it so. E-ink and e-paper can be called electronic paper, but e-paper isn't usually e-ink and e-paper usually is LCD.
So, Pebble Time's LCD is indeed e-paper, but is not e-ink.
E-Ink is a specific company’s name which can’t be used to describe the same display technology when used by any other company.
Today e paper is widely understood to mean the display technology which companies like e ink and waveshare use for displays which don’t need power to retain an image.
You’re right that historically it’s been confusing. Historically e ink was the only company making these displays since it was all patented so using their brand name as the technology name worked better back then than it does today.
You don't get 2 weeks battery life with GPS. That drops it down to less than a day.
Garmin's Enduro 3 claims 13.3 days[1] of continuous GPS tracking with solar recharge and is tested to have 5 continuous days without[2].
[1] https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-7AD1A592-9044-4... [2] https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/gp...
Pebble does not have GPS at all. You don't have to use GPS on the watch, if you don't need to. You have an option to choose to use it, if you want to. Garmin watches ~2 weeks just as a smart watch, 8-50 hours with GPS on. But you will not have it on, unless you need it for a specific workout.
I get about two weeks from my Garmin Instinct, using GPS sporadically as needed.
Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me.
If I am buying a smart/tracking watch today, I want these things from it:
- Great battery life
- HRM (with decent accuracy; doesn't have to pass those "accuracy tests" though)
- GPS (with extremely good accuracy and yes, it has to pass those accuracy tests for GPS. And no, if I turn it ON and use it and the battery dies quickly, I won't hold it against you - that's supposed to happen)
- Do not track me - do not send any data to anywhere unless I specifically want it
- Do not need a phone to be connected to function - let me export data later if I choose to (hell, if this is the only way - I don't mind - BT not being used always isn't so bad - saves a bit of battery; if you need me to do this via a USB type C cable later, I don't mind that either)
That's all!
-----
If you don't have these features, I don't really mind:
- Show me the incoming call on the screen. - Give me a way to reject or silence it. If I want to answer that call, then I'll reach out to my phone anyway.
- Maybe show the time and day if I tap it or I am fine if it's always shown
- Preferably don't show me notifications from apps in general and if you do - give a very granular way to disable specific apps (this might already be possible)
- Please sell a non-touchscreen option (but I can live with one)
- Do not try to be the smartphone or replicate it somehow and end up becoming a Frankenstein in both size and spirit
- Maybe keep it lightweight?
PS. And, for the love of god, do not ever try to hardcode special chargers/cables like Philips does for their trimmers. Bas----ds sell different cables and different chargers for two trimmer models released in the same year very close to each other and in close price ranges fulfilling similar functions.
> Lack of GPS essentially killed the resurrected Pebble for me. > GPS > Do not need a phone to be connected to function
I don't really think you're in the target demographic for a pebble at all. It sounds like you want a standalone device that's essentially a smartphone on your wrist. I know you say you don't want it to be a smartphone, but if you want battery-life, a GPS, and phone independence, that's the product you're going to get.
Pebble is (and was) more of a smartphone companion, it has basically no smart functionality on its own.
I suspect you might not be aware that certain things can be "turned off" on a smartwatch or a computing device, mobile or otherwise. But if you knew, then I do not know why you still made this comment.
What made you switch to an Apple Watch? I’ve been tossing up between a Garmin Forerunner 955 or an Apple Watch (I have an iPhone SE 2)
I have been using Apple Watch since series 0. I believe I switched from Garmin fenix 3. I feel like at that time Fenix had a lot of issues, I remember there were some about the maps, maybe they did not even had them at that time. And I was really into hiking. So thought that Apple Watch could be a better watch. Workouts were nice, listening music from the watch was a good addition.
I have not tried new fenix watches. And I would assume they are the same good as Apple Watches as well. But I do like my Apple Watch Ultra (2 or 3, whatever was released this year)
My conspiracy theory is there is something inherently rotten at Apple and it is simply not possible to build a smartwatch that never mind can match the feature set of the apple watch but also the levels of battery efficiency on the iPhone paired with a smartwatch different than the Apple Watch. I don't know this for a fact but I am sure multiple cheap ish Chinese watch vendors would not choose to intentionally drain the iPhone battery if they could avoid it.
It's not just a theory. It's well documented that Apple has a bunch of APIs and protocols (like AirPods proprietary low latency wireless instead of Bluetooth, NFC was not allowed until years after Apple Pay) that are not available to 3rd party developers. They will sometimes open things up after they've given their own products years of head start because apparently owning most of the ecosystem and having undying brand loyalty from their users isn't enough.
Actually for many years even to build regular Bluetooth devices that did anything besides audio, you needed to add a special chip (Made for iPhone chip) to your hardware to verify that it was an authorized Apple Accessory. Pebble had one, but any 3rd party apps that wanted to send data to the watch (like Uber app, sports apps, random indie apps) had to get allow listed to communicate with accessory devices like Pebble.
Pretty much spot on https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-...
I think there’s a simpler explanation. Apple’s always uses a type of product metric that most companies don’t use. Those competitor products don’t care about phone battery drain, so they aren’t even trying to do anything about it.
I mean, it's Apple's whole strategy to create an ecosystem of devices that all work really well with each other. Having had some insight about how chinese manufacturing operates on the low end it's much simpler than that, they just don't really care about things like not draining battery life. Their products are built to a price point and they are aware of that. If it could be built to the same price point without heavily draining battery life then it would be.
I can't find the quote in the original post, so I don't know the context of that statement.
But generally, Garmins don't allow developing and installing 3rd-party apps on their watches
Sorry, I guess I was just reading about them, and went to the original blog post published on 2025-03-18 https://ericmigi.com/blog/introducing-two-new-pebbleos-watch...
I was able to develop apps for Garmin Fenix 3, which was released in 2015 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/160512/#specs it already supported building apps for the watch. They also had a funny name for the language they built, something like "Gorilla language" or something similar.
EDIT: found it, they call it Monkey-C https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq/monkey-c/
Hah, I didn't know that. And I specifically looked for my pebble replacement, and contemplated over Garmin.
I guess their marketing dept hasn't been doing their work so well.
Thanks for sharing this
Isn’t garmin connect IQ exactly that ?
Edit: damn autocorrect
Yep, you're right. I didn't know about that
Love philosophy and the story bringing it back. I really liked the originals, but today I don’t find the design appealing - I’m sure some of you do ofc.
I'm not sure if the best example, but what I can think of atm — Looking at what Teenage Engineering is doing (copy Dieter Rams), I find their products fun and they feel premium. I think a design refresh for pebble could make a big difference.
Probably hard to think about re-design at this stage, and I do hope it keeps gaining momentum and support to grow.
Not perhaps exactly what you're looking for, but Nothing's smartwatches might scratch that itch. They've got honestly gigantic bezels, but they do a very commendable job on making it seem done purposefully done.
> Probably hard to think about re-design at this stage
They did redesign the Pebble Time 2, so that may be more to your liking. Sadly as one who still loves the original design, it lost its appeal to me, but perhaps my loss could be your gain on this one.
Teenage Engineering design is fundamentally fauxstalgic.
I agree, design sensibilities have changed. Like you I would love something a bit more utilitarian and clean. It would be a nice contrast to everything else out there.
I would in general agree with you. Although I do feel TE have some design flaws regarding structural quality that Braun didn't have and watches would struggle with having.
My app that I published 12 years ago is on there, hah.
I really want to buy a pebble. Can you please reconsider offering the watch via retailers when it becomes financially viable?
I haven't used my pebble for years, but as I don't have a smartwatch, I might bring it back. Do the iOs integrations (calls, messages, etc.) still work as they did? I remember that runkeeper would display data to the watch while running.
Good time to bring it back. You used to have to sideload the iOS app for years and the new app makes using an old Pebble with an iPhone so much easier. :) I've been using the app for a few weeks and it generally works well but not everything is already functional. No voice replies, no health tracking, no canned messages, yet, for example.
Here's the changelog: https://ndocs.repebble.com/changelog
Hah, one of the apps I published is still in there, fun to see