It's great to see Android TV mentioned. Has anyone managed to build a freedom-respecting TV box with Lineage? This is a much needed alternative to "smart" TVs and streaming boxes filled with spyware and arbitrary restrictions.
Over recent user privacy (and security) crackdowns from Google, these OS upgrades seem to be becoming more appealing. Can anyone comment on what differs Lineage from something like GrapheneOS?
Graphene is probably better on the devices that support both (Pixels), but since hardware support is so (intentionally) limited, it kind of a moot point. Also the Graphene community is kind of obsessed with "security" and does not seem to place much emphasis on freedom/hackability.
A few years ago, Lineage was just a customizable tinkerer friendly AOSP. It served as a base for a lot more Android distros. It was just a smoother Android variant with features like double tap on the notification bar to sleep, better integrated root support, more built in theming options.
Graphene OS was only available for a few Pixel Devices whose source was fully available and mainly focused on security features like improved permissions and more anti tracking features.
To give an example, a company I worked for shipped it's phones with a Lineage OS base with a few patches from Graphene OS to replace default ntp and connectivity check servers.
Waydroid runs Lineage, so it's certainly possible, but I don't know how easy it is on something like QEMU.
That being said buying a phone compatible with Lineage or Graphene (only Pixels for the latter) is well worth it. This will probably become even more important in the future if Google bans sideloading or complies with idiotic laws such client-side scanning of messages in some markets.
I use LineageOS on all my devices (it's actually my main criteria when buying a phone) to mainly install apps from F-Droid without relying on the Google Play Store.
It has the same familiar look and feel on all devices and by experience is way snappier than the original ROM.
Banking apps that do not require Google Play services, such as Bank of America, run just fine. Besides, you can always open a browser and use the web version. Losing banking apps and "tap to pay" is a small price to pay for avoiding having your data constantly siphoned by Google.
Every version of Lineage has rooted ADB accessible in the developer options. If you want root for apps, you must load Magisk. If root is important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage puts out all the patches that they can, every month, unlike OEMs. If current patches are important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage allows you to run it without any Google closed source code.
These are some serious advantages, depending upon what you are trying to do.
Got a Xperia Z1 in 2013. Sony stopped updating it at some point in 2014-2015, which is stupid, but the hardware was still like new (which is the great thing about Sony phones) so I rooted it and managed to install it. Can't remember if it was already named "LineageOS" or "CyanogenMod" at the time. However, it lasted with me until nov. 2020 when I dropped and the screen cracked, made it to be changed but the replacement was kinda bad so used it as an excuse to get a 1ii.
I did the same with this "new" phone, that is going to be 5 years with me - since also got that only-two-years-of-updates thing, threw LineageOS on it and it's going as new.
So as I said the last time I saw a post about it in here, thanks to LineageOS I can use a phone for way more than they are set out to be forgotten. It's a great project and it's really sad Google are making things harder for them for the sake of "security".
I immediately put Lineage on all my devices. In fact, I only buy Android devices that Lineage supports. It's a uniform, degoogled Android experience that just works.
I have a Samsung Tablet and Samsung's version for said tablet is a giant mountain of crap, full of bloatware, so I installed LineageOS on it. Also my old phone and my old old phone run LineageOS because I'm just logged in to Google on my {current_phone}.
I ran LineageOS on my Moto X4 for many years. It was much faster without the OEM Moto and carrier apps, and was faster again when I installed it without Google Play Services. Same thing with an old Kindle Fire tablet, finally made it fast enough to practically use.
If your phone is more than a few years old it likely doesn't get updates from the manufacturer anymore. LineageOS will get you to the latest Android with security patches. Same sort of deal as with OpenWRT for a router really, you get all the features and security patches but at the loss of the firmware that the device came with and its propriety enhancements.
I haven't used custom roms in ages, but I used Lineage back when it was called Cyanogen. It had this cool thing where you could adjust brightness by swiping the top edge of the screen. (This was back in the day when you could reach that part easily!)
QFT. Lineage and Graphene are the last bastions of freedom on mobile phones. Linux phones aren't quite there yet in terms of usability, and sacrifice compatibility with thousands of great apps (including many great FOSS apps) available on Android.
If you want to escape Google's monopoly, you can use LineageOS without google apps, as opposed to the malware and spyware-ridden trash that usually comes preinstalled on your phone.
Yes, that's unfortunate. But it is "easily" patchable (and a world of difference from actually running google play services with root privileges on your phone).
And it's a decently recent version with more-or-less official Nvidia Tegra drivers, too. For the variety of weird-but-ubiquitous devices that have a bootloader hack, LineageOS is the route to a working smart device that anyone can pick up and use.
With Titanium Backup unmaintained, Neo Backup [1] works pretty well. It has some potential issues with restoring wifi/bluetooth/sms as those were still experimental, last I used it. But sms at least worked. I'd suggest a 2nd backup app of those, just in case.
> And I heard that Google stopped pushing Pixel source?
> Yes, Google has pulled back here too. Pixel kernels are now only offered as history-stripped tarballs, available privately on request, with no device trees, HALs, or configs. Thanks to projects like CalyxOS, Pixels will likely remain well supported, but they’re no longer guaranteed “day one” devices for LineageOS. Pixel devices are now effectively no easier to support than any other OEM’s devices. In short, this just makes things harder, not impossible.
These fucking bastards. How far we have fallen in ~10 years of smartphone ubiquity. I have zero hopes that this monopolising trend will ever be reversed without top-down regulation from a big bloc like the EU.
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk libertarian (though there are worse ways to sound), it seems to me that top-down, big bloc regulation is a non-trivial piece of what has gotten into this mess.
The entrenchment via regulatory capture at the baseband level, with enormous state interplay with TSMC and Qualcomm (both economic and regulatory, both publicly known and classified), makes it impossible for a seriously independent actor to enter the market, exception _maybe_ an ubercapitalist like Musk or something.
I'm much more interested to see what happens when we achieve sufficient peace that industrial complexes are no longer the primary pillar of support for chip engineering and fabrication. I suspect that this will unlock the open development, up to the kernel and beyond, that we all hope for.
What would baseband usage look like in a deregulated world?
I’m skeptical, but the question is honest. Without the (quite corrupt) allotment of frequencies and broadcast radio tech by the FCC and government, I’m having trouble envisioning a future that doesn’t end up back at the bcm/qcm/etc. near-monopoly … just via market collusion rather than state orchestration. Is there a better future there that I’m missing?
You can't blame the EU for Google pulling developer support for devices or holding back security patches.
There are pros and cons to "big bloc regulation". You can go and start a phone company since so many things are standarised but the main constraint will be who you source a modem from and the lack of choice will be because of patents (see Apple vs Qualcomm).
It's great to see Android TV mentioned. Has anyone managed to build a freedom-respecting TV box with Lineage? This is a much needed alternative to "smart" TVs and streaming boxes filled with spyware and arbitrary restrictions.
Over recent user privacy (and security) crackdowns from Google, these OS upgrades seem to be becoming more appealing. Can anyone comment on what differs Lineage from something like GrapheneOS?
Graphene is probably better on the devices that support both (Pixels), but since hardware support is so (intentionally) limited, it kind of a moot point. Also the Graphene community is kind of obsessed with "security" and does not seem to place much emphasis on freedom/hackability.
A few years ago, Lineage was just a customizable tinkerer friendly AOSP. It served as a base for a lot more Android distros. It was just a smoother Android variant with features like double tap on the notification bar to sleep, better integrated root support, more built in theming options.
Graphene OS was only available for a few Pixel Devices whose source was fully available and mainly focused on security features like improved permissions and more anti tracking features.
To give an example, a company I worked for shipped it's phones with a Lineage OS base with a few patches from Graphene OS to replace default ntp and connectivity check servers.
Any way to get this to run in a VM? Or should I give up and buy a phone that can handle it and use it through remote desktop tools?
Waydroid runs Lineage, so it's certainly possible, but I don't know how easy it is on something like QEMU.
That being said buying a phone compatible with Lineage or Graphene (only Pixels for the latter) is well worth it. This will probably become even more important in the future if Google bans sideloading or complies with idiotic laws such client-side scanning of messages in some markets.
LineageOS is an open source android distribution. Can anyone comment on who might use LineageOS and why?
[delayed]
I use LineageOS on all my devices (it's actually my main criteria when buying a phone) to mainly install apps from F-Droid without relying on the Google Play Store.
It has the same familiar look and feel on all devices and by experience is way snappier than the original ROM.
are you able to do any banking your phone?
(Lineage user here) I've had no trouble with Schwab, USAA, Discover, Amex, Mercury, PayPal, Venmo, or Stripe.
Phone is rooted with Magisk Hide and MicroG for spoofing google play services. Google Wallet does not work.
Most everything banking related works for me. 2 different credit unions, roboinvesting, paypal & paypal-alikes, credit card, car insurance, etc.
What does not work? An LG app to control an air conditioner.
Also I have to hide root from the roku app, which I use for the headphone because it works better than the headphone on the remote.
Super important stuff, no wonder they lock that down so much.
Ok I did skip one real thing for the sake of the funny. I can't do google tap to pay. That's about it.
This is all the same on a rooted standard rom as on Lineage.
Banking apps that do not require Google Play services, such as Bank of America, run just fine. Besides, you can always open a browser and use the web version. Losing banking apps and "tap to pay" is a small price to pay for avoiding having your data constantly siphoned by Google.
Every version of Lineage has rooted ADB accessible in the developer options. If you want root for apps, you must load Magisk. If root is important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage puts out all the patches that they can, every month, unlike OEMs. If current patches are important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage allows you to run it without any Google closed source code.
These are some serious advantages, depending upon what you are trying to do.
Got a Xperia Z1 in 2013. Sony stopped updating it at some point in 2014-2015, which is stupid, but the hardware was still like new (which is the great thing about Sony phones) so I rooted it and managed to install it. Can't remember if it was already named "LineageOS" or "CyanogenMod" at the time. However, it lasted with me until nov. 2020 when I dropped and the screen cracked, made it to be changed but the replacement was kinda bad so used it as an excuse to get a 1ii.
I did the same with this "new" phone, that is going to be 5 years with me - since also got that only-two-years-of-updates thing, threw LineageOS on it and it's going as new.
So as I said the last time I saw a post about it in here, thanks to LineageOS I can use a phone for way more than they are set out to be forgotten. It's a great project and it's really sad Google are making things harder for them for the sake of "security".
I immediately put Lineage on all my devices. In fact, I only buy Android devices that Lineage supports. It's a uniform, degoogled Android experience that just works.
I have a Samsung Tablet and Samsung's version for said tablet is a giant mountain of crap, full of bloatware, so I installed LineageOS on it. Also my old phone and my old old phone run LineageOS because I'm just logged in to Google on my {current_phone}.
I ran LineageOS on my Moto X4 for many years. It was much faster without the OEM Moto and carrier apps, and was faster again when I installed it without Google Play Services. Same thing with an old Kindle Fire tablet, finally made it fast enough to practically use.
If your phone is more than a few years old it likely doesn't get updates from the manufacturer anymore. LineageOS will get you to the latest Android with security patches. Same sort of deal as with OpenWRT for a router really, you get all the features and security patches but at the loss of the firmware that the device came with and its propriety enhancements.
I haven't used custom roms in ages, but I used Lineage back when it was called Cyanogen. It had this cool thing where you could adjust brightness by swiping the top edge of the screen. (This was back in the day when you could reach that part easily!)
I want to use an OS that isn't loaded with spyware, so non-FOSS Android just doesn't fit the bill for me.
QFT. Lineage and Graphene are the last bastions of freedom on mobile phones. Linux phones aren't quite there yet in terms of usability, and sacrifice compatibility with thousands of great apps (including many great FOSS apps) available on Android.
You might remember them by their old name, Cyanogenmod
Because aosp is basically useless on your phone - it lacks a ton of apps
for some certain models it offers updated android versions (while the company doesn't)
If you want to escape Google's monopoly, you can use LineageOS without google apps, as opposed to the malware and spyware-ridden trash that usually comes preinstalled on your phone.
Even if you run LineageOS without Google, LineageOS still phones home to Google for DNS and captive portal checks.
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
Yes, that's unfortunate. But it is "easily" patchable (and a world of difference from actually running google play services with root privileges on your phone).
You can run LineageOS on the Nintendo Switch if you want: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/nx/variant1/
And it's a decently recent version with more-or-less official Nvidia Tegra drivers, too. For the variety of weird-but-ubiquitous devices that have a bootloader hack, LineageOS is the route to a working smart device that anyone can pick up and use.
Anyone setup a Rabbit R1 with lineage?
How do backups/restores work when using LineageOS and moving to a new phone?
With Titanium Backup unmaintained, Neo Backup [1] works pretty well. It has some potential issues with restoring wifi/bluetooth/sms as those were still experimental, last I used it. But sms at least worked. I'd suggest a 2nd backup app of those, just in case.
[1] https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Backup
They're seamless. Any phone that allows you true `root` can do nandroid style backups which work very similar to how iOS does backups.
:^)
^^
Well, waiting for the eBPF backport then.. still more likely to be released than AOSP 16 QPR1 :)
> And I heard that Google stopped pushing Pixel source?
> Yes, Google has pulled back here too. Pixel kernels are now only offered as history-stripped tarballs, available privately on request, with no device trees, HALs, or configs. Thanks to projects like CalyxOS, Pixels will likely remain well supported, but they’re no longer guaranteed “day one” devices for LineageOS. Pixel devices are now effectively no easier to support than any other OEM’s devices. In short, this just makes things harder, not impossible.
These fucking bastards. How far we have fallen in ~10 years of smartphone ubiquity. I have zero hopes that this monopolising trend will ever be reversed without top-down regulation from a big bloc like the EU.
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk libertarian (though there are worse ways to sound), it seems to me that top-down, big bloc regulation is a non-trivial piece of what has gotten into this mess.
The entrenchment via regulatory capture at the baseband level, with enormous state interplay with TSMC and Qualcomm (both economic and regulatory, both publicly known and classified), makes it impossible for a seriously independent actor to enter the market, exception _maybe_ an ubercapitalist like Musk or something.
I'm much more interested to see what happens when we achieve sufficient peace that industrial complexes are no longer the primary pillar of support for chip engineering and fabrication. I suspect that this will unlock the open development, up to the kernel and beyond, that we all hope for.
What would baseband usage look like in a deregulated world?
I’m skeptical, but the question is honest. Without the (quite corrupt) allotment of frequencies and broadcast radio tech by the FCC and government, I’m having trouble envisioning a future that doesn’t end up back at the bcm/qcm/etc. near-monopoly … just via market collusion rather than state orchestration. Is there a better future there that I’m missing?
You can't blame the EU for Google pulling developer support for devices or holding back security patches.
There are pros and cons to "big bloc regulation". You can go and start a phone company since so many things are standarised but the main constraint will be who you source a modem from and the lack of choice will be because of patents (see Apple vs Qualcomm).
Aren't there are a few modem vendors? MediaTek, Intel, and a bunch of Chinese players?