We've had matte screens for a long time that don't show glare. The problem is, the blacks are much more washed-out because that light still has to go somewhere, so it's basically just being smeared across the entire display.
This page shows lots of side-by-side photos of content that is primarily white, and most of the black bits (like text) are too small to make out.
The comparison needs to use things like busy photographs with bright areas and black areas. Then you can judge how much more washed-out the black areas look.
The second photo makes the Nano texture look pretty washed-out, but sadly doesn't include the traditional glossy laptop next to it for comparison, so it's impossible to tell.
Also, in all the side-by-side photos the Nano screen looks like it's set to much brighter. So any fair comparison should have them set to equal brightness. There's no universe in which a glossy screen is going to make the white areas look darker, as they are in all these examples.
I'm very curious if/how the Nano is better, but unfortunately these photos don't do anything to demonstrate it.
Contrast is worse, it's a trade off. For me in most environments there will be bright reflections on the glossy screens, even indoors - your brain actually does a good job of ignoring them to the point you're not even conciously aware most of the time, but when you smear them out with the nano texture display it's just way more comfortable to look at, for me at least.
If I was focused on watching movies, or grading photos in a dark room then glossy would be the way to go.
Depends a lot on the screen and environment in my experience.
A glossy Apple Studio Display or iMac (both of which have a decent antiglare treatment despite being glossy) in an office setting for example isn’t too bad.
On the other hand, your average touchscreen laptop (which are always almost-mirrors with no hint of treatment, for some reason) with screen angled up slightly and overhead fluorescent tube lighting or a skylight on the other hand? Borderline useless if the screen isn’t bright enough to outshine the strong glare covering 40-60%+ of the screen.
I really like the nano texture display. But I occasionally like to dabble with my camera, sometimes pushing things around in editing apps and after seeing how an unedited photo rendered on a coworkers macbook with the nano texture, I sadly went for the gloss on my own purchase. It's not a huge difference and probably not even a dealbreaker to most, but it's already hard enough to find a best fit for varied color spaces out there who I share photos with and I didn't want to add another variable to the equation. When you're trying to deal with shadows it does get annoying when you're nerfed even just a little bit trying to determine how much detail is in the shadows.
It's admittedly a very obvious tradeoff, but part of me was hoping some new magic existed with the nano texture since everyone was ranting and raving about it on its release. Figured maybe just maybe it could've given me the best of both worlds. Nope. As it turns out people who make "review videos" often times don't know what the hell they're talking about. I've learned to tune those out and just source my purchasing info from people who do things im also interested in doing. In practical application it was an easy decision to make. For my use case glossy display just made more sense, I dork with photos/videos many times a year whereas I sit outside in the sun with my laptop maybe once a year if I'm traveling. And even in those scenarios the glossy display is fine.
Appreciate the feedback and notes here- I would love to revisit the methodology and use a separate physical brightness meter to normalize for that. To my best memory I made sure both devices were at max stock brightness for each photo.
"The nano-texture adds a filter-like appearance, resulting in a lower contrast ratio than the glossy panel. That said, there are differing opinions about the subjective appearance of the raised blacks. Some say it's a dealbreaker, while others prefer it, arguing that it looks more like what you would see on paper. The glossy panel produces a deeper, more Google Pixel HDR type of contrast that some find unnatural." — https://www.rtings.com/laptop/learn/apple-nano-texture
I'd definitely recommend popping to an Apple store at some point and looking at a nano display in person. It's really kind of freaky, it has a paper-like quality to it that I've not seen with any other laptop display. I'm not sure a picture or a description is ever going to cut it.
Last year, I bought a MBP with both screen types (at the recommendation of an Apple employee - they said just return the one I didn’t like) and compared them side by side for a few days. I also spent some time in the Apple Store, looking at iMacs side by side, since they were the only things they had on display with the Nano Texture.
tl;dr in perfect lighting conditions - which I noticed the Apple Store did a pretty good job at - the glossy screen wins, obviously. The contrast is quite a bit better, pictures really pop, and text isn’t particularly affected. In anything other than perfect lighting, Nano Texture wins by a mile.
If you’re going to be doing any kind of photo or video work, you’ll probably want the glossy screen, or (what I suspect most would have) the Nano Texture, with a dedicated external monitor for the best of both worlds.
If you’re primarily using your laptop for anything other than photo / video work, or if you use it mobile, you want the Nano Texture screen. I can’t objectively say what you lose in contrast ratio, but it’s not bad enough to overcome the huge disparity in glare reduction. I haven’t regretted my Nano Texture MBP for a second.
Your idea makes a lot of sense - external OLED glossy monitor color calibrated for the room used for serious photo and color theory. And for portable use the nano texture laptop screen.
I suppose if you really wanted to get fancy you could calibrate the nano texture screen against the proper monitor and then add an export filter that accounted for the contrast adjustment when using your machine portably
Here's a question, what's the point of having deep blacks when they're ruined by bright, distracting reflections?
if image quality is going to be degraded either way, a dim, broad reflection is MUCH better than a sharp one. matte screens win in pretty much all scenarios except when the display is the only light source in the room.
> There's no universe in which a glossy screen is going to make the white areas look darker, as they are in all these examples.
Actually I do think I get this effect in sunny environments on my glossy screen, and end up wishing my work laptop had the nano texture.
Ultimately, I bought the nano-texture 16", and have not hesitated on that choice once. It's also far easier to maintain; while the glossy screen just gets nasty over time, the nano-texture is still pretty much mint after a year.
This won't be a problem when Apple migrate all macs to OLED as blacks will be true black (no light).
I have a Samsung SD95 that has a glare free chemical coating and it is amazing on rooms with too much light with no greyish black on low light conditions (at least from my personal experience).
Tangent but the screen scratches mentioned from the keyboard are annoying. Every generation of MacBook has suffered from them and everyone’s seems to have it after a while, I guess it’s just physics when it gets stuffed in a bag etc, but any good tips to avoid it? I’ve heard mixed things about keeping a cloth in there
I'm on my third mac which has a glossy screen and tight tolerances. I won't sweat it.
The hardness of the coating is getting better with every generation. I'm on my M1 MacBook, which I'm using for ~4 years every day. The scratches are visible, but becomes almost invisible when I clean the screen. Moreover they're invisible when the screen is on. My 10 year old Unibody also has them, and while they're worse, they're not visible either.
The best defense is having a padded case and using it even carrying in a bag. Carrying a cloth can bend and damage the screen in worse ways.
But never apply it directly on screen. I think it's important to mention you just do not use "some alcohol" but it should be 70% isopropyl alcohol solution.
Btw. alcohol is a very good way to destroy the old glossy screens (non nano texture).
> Btw. alcohol is a very good way to destroy the old glossy screens (non nano texture).
Respectful disagree. My partner's family's go-to surface spray has always been a home-made mix of ~30% methylated spirits to water. That's the only bench spray I've used for 10+ years and I can report it's as effective as any commercial spray, and 10% the price. Just mix it at home and use it everywhere. Kitchen, bathroom, anywhere else. I speak as a clean-freak. It works.
It's also amazing for cleaning laptop screens. I spray it directly on. I shouldn't. I do. I type this on a 5-year-old Macbook Air whose screen has been cleaned countless times using this method. It looks like this. (The moon-surface-like texture at the top is the texture of the reflected wall, above.) https://share.cleanshot.com/bnHrCQDZ
1. Make this mixture in a $1 spray bottle at home.
2. Lock your laptop and press Escape so the screen turns off. Lay it screen-back-down, keyboard open at about 80°, so it sits on the bench.
3. Spray a small amount of this mixture on the screen, directly. But don't be shy. Just don't have the screen be swimming.
4. Wipe carefully with a kitchen towel.
5. Repeat as necessary.
So far the only danger I've found is catching an abrasive particle in the cloth in the wiping process. A pre-wipe can alleviate the issue.
Apparently they're 39.5% isopropyl alcohol. 1 wipe is basically enough to clean 1 laptop screen before it all evaporates. Been using them for over a decade now on my MacBook Airs.
I believe Apple stores used to use "Whoosh" cleaning spray along with a cloth replaced once a day. It's an alcohol free cleaning solution (very similar to alcohol free eyeglass cleaners).
Mild alcohol causing issues for MBP screens was primarily an issue with 2012-2014 "staingate" (due to defects in the coating process).
Lens wipes are only ~30% alcohol and are probably fine assuming correct application, but I guess given how often staingate has appeared as coatings get more complex there's a risk... Unfortunately you either have to tradeoff "contains alcohol but completely clean wipe" versus "alcohol free but using a cloth that might be contaminated by dust/grit".
Maybe you could do alcohol free eyeglass solution (or maybe even ROR fluid) + lens tissue (e.g. kimwipe).
I've researched a little deeper. Apparently it depends on the mixture and on the model of your laptop.
I've written that because I remember of "staingate" of Apple Laptops. Apparently the 2012–2017 Retina models were really not okay with alcohol solutions.
So depending on the manufacturing year and alcohol solution percentage you can be fine with alcohol on glossy displays.
Apple recommends Zeiss lens wipes (70% alcohol — https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Moistened-Lens-Cleaning-Wipes-Alc...) or Zeiss cleaning spray with Vision Pro Polishing Cloth for use on Vision Pro prescription optical inserts, optical displays, and external display/cover glass. Is there any better vote of confidence than that for cleaning state-of-the-art glass?
The screen has an oleophobic coating. That is the danger of alcohol, that it strips the coating. For your phone absolutely don't do this. For your laptop it should be fine.
I tried the iPad with Nano Texture and didn’t really like the rainbow effect that shows up on white brackgrounds. So I ended up returning it.
A while later I had an idea to mount an iPad to my fridge so that I could check the weather, add things to my shopping list, play music, etc. I bought the rather expensive iPad with Nano Texture screen and it has been amazing to use. There is a big window opposite the fridge, and without the nano texture the glare from behind makes it hard to read what’s on the screen.
Not sure I would enjoy nano texture on my MacBook. For outdoor use I found that Vivid is great to turn up the brightness using the extended range of HDR that Apple doesn’t otherwise allow me to use.
Mine is mounted to the fridge, so it's not seeing as much use as it otherwise would. Screen does get smudges and they are more noticeable compared to the regular iPad screen. Not so much that it's a problem to be honest. I wipe it down every few weeks, and that's fine with me.
They would have to leave the sensors out, but could cover the rest of the bezel. They don’t do it because then the sensors would be more visible. But I’d prefer them to put function over aesthetics.
... on the iPad. I have a nanotexture MacBook and double-checked. It's textured all the way across. But you're right, the bezel of the iPad is glossy (1). Why would they do that? Is it masked off or a separate piece of glass?
I recently purchased a "paperlike" for my iPad Pro (M4, if it matters).
I'll be honest, it has made the writing like 20% better, but the touching about 50% worse.
The feel of the screen is somewhat irritating, though it looks nice when the backlight is dim so I thought I'd go to Apple and check out the nano-texture.
All I can say is that subjectively, I liked it even less.
I have no idea how people can live with nanotexture on iPad screens.
That said, a consistent issue I have with my Macbook Air and my iPad pro is that the "peripherals" touch the screen. My Macbook ends up with oily cubes where the keyboard and its edge has rubbed up against the screen display; and similarly on the iPad I have a perpetual line where the smart folio has its segments.
I thought I had unusually oily hands and started washing more frequently, but that seems to have made the problem worse somehow. :\
I just keep a clean microfiber cloth in my bag and wipe down my keyboard and trackpad from time to time. It really cuts down on getting the screen dirty from the other side of the laptop.
There's honestly not much you can do to prevent the "oily cubes" problem, especially if you keep the laptop docked often. You'll just have to clean the screen more often.
I've seen some people place a keyboard-sized microfibre cloth in between the keyboard and display but I'm not sure how well that actually works in practice. It might cause other issues.
> I've seen some people place a keyboard-sized microfibre cloth in between the keyboard and display but I'm not sure how well that actually works in practice. It might cause other issues.
The tolerance is tight enough here that folks used to damage their displays this way. You need an extremely thin layer here if you are going to do this.
Absolutely. I honestly wouldn't ever recommend doing this. Imo, you should just spent a little extra time cleaning your display over taking dubious preventative measures.
Being serious, I'm always wearing nitrile gloves if whatever I have to clean is dirty - plus it's also a protection against detergents.
A spare Samsung phone I've got mid-pandemic I had to purify with isopropyl because young guy who was selling it clearly didn't care much about all the gunk.
I HATE the oily squares on my MacBook Air screen. I think the real issue is that there is zero space between the screen and the keyboard when the laptop is closed. I’ve started keeping a piece of printer paper between the screen and keyboard whenever I close it, and that helps but it’s annoying to have to do. So much so that I looked into getting a MBP but they have the same problem.
I'd take an ever so slightly thicker laptop that avoided this (never seen this on a Thinkpad for example) but Apple seems to be obsessed with the thinnest of everything possible
I personally haven't noticed that. I am also primarily coding & writing rather than image editing or such so am less sensitive to things like that fwiw.
You’re not the only one to mention that in this thread. I’ve had a nanotextured MacBook as a daily driver for about six months, and I have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe the issue is iPad only?
Rainbow isn't really the right term. It's more of a sparkling effect. Apple actually uses the term "sparkle" for this characteristic in their patent for the display treatment (see para 0073). They also mention that different diffractive layers can be used to minimize the effect, so it is possible that the issue is worse on some devices than others.
Well whatever it is, my MBP screen looks perfectly fine. It's like a matte display, but not with the colors all washed out like the matte displays of yore. No visible artifacts of any kind that I can see.
I don't touch my display on my MacBook and it's always yucky because of the finger oils on my keyboard, so the thought of having to use a special cloth to clean it always seemed like too much of a hassle for me compared to the glossy display. I did wonder if this improved ever since they added nano texture to the ipad pro, but sounds like fingerprints are still annoying.
For the longest time, I kept the sheet of foam that comes with the new laptop. Eventually that got lost. I then picked up a pre-cut bit of microfiber that fit the laptop and thin enough to allow for full closing. Once you get in the habit of remembering to put the cloth back before closing the lid, you'll be amazed at your screen's lack of oils.
I can't even type on a keyboard that is oily so I make an effort to never eat around my machine and always keep my hands clean. I clean my macbooks about 1x per month using isopropyl on a microfiber cloth.
I clean my MacBook Pro keyboard daily (or almost every time I use it) with either water only or if it’s really yucky, a ~30% isopropyl alcohol spray.
I use a regular yellow microfiber towel (usually from the giant bag I pick up from Costco every few years)
Afterward I use it to wipe off the screen.
Personally I’ve never had any issues with screen coating except on the older 2012-2015 MacBook Pros where my fingernails eventually caused the coating to scratch by the webcam (when opening the display, I suspect)
A note about new microfiber towels: they need to be washed prior to use or they’ll leave little bits of plastic micro fibers all over whatever you’re trying to clean
Most of the time plain water and moist microfiber towel will make it look new again.
It does nothing for wear on the keycaps though my command key and a few keys like A, Z, W, and S are wearing away and look slightly glossy.
I've found the nano-texture macbook pro screen to be way more resilient, and the cloth that comes with it is (I hate to say it) amazing. I use nearly identical 16" Macbook Pros heavily, one with nano and one without, and the nano is easier to keep perfect, usually with no liquid required. The glossy screen is easily damaged
I've been using a sunshield I made out of some black mat board for at least a decade now. There's a few little magnets in it to cling to the magnets hidden in my Mac's lid. It's been on like 3-5 computers now, looking increasingly battered; whenever I upgrade I get to see if the magnets are in the same orientation or not.
Works great, I keep it in the padded pocket in my laptop bag next to the computer and the drawing tablet and take it out when I'm sitting in the park.
This reminds me of why my old 2003 Toshiba Portege R100 so far has been my favourite alltime laptop.
- It was thinner overall than a Macbook Air, BEFORE it came out (watching people get hyped about Air's was just a snooze)
- Transreflexive screen in color (like that "daylight computer" in TFA), not the brightest when it comes to light but certainly bright enough, and more improtantly worked 100% without issues outside in the sun (turning the screen _towards_ the sun was actually a better choice!). It's really a shame they went out of favour for "glossy" displays.
- Extra ram and that Pentium M cpu that was neck-to-neck with P4's for certain workloads (telling people of compile times had people in disbelief)
It’s always amusing how much Apple’s adoption of generic tech is hyped up and overanalysed online, and made into a must have feature making all alternatives unsuitable.
The nano texture screen coating is clearly better for my purposes vs a glossy screen. Reading text gives less eye strain and there’s a slight ePaper-esque quality to things that’s just relaxing. Maybe some argument to be had for pure media consumption or image editing.
I don’t think Apple’s screen coating tech is anything magical or different to what’s on tons of decent monitors, Benq for one.
For marketing reasons, Apple only make this screen available in the MacBook Pro. For my use, this is needless extra cost, weight and bulk. I’m already paying hundreds extra for a coated screen, there’s no reason it can’t be made available on the MacBook Air too.
I’d still buy a MacBook if nano coating didn’t exist, the screen ratio, SoC and trackpad quality are still not close to being matched. Not to mention the fact that basically no other laptop is even available to buy in the UK with a US keyboard layout.
I've been saying glossy screens are pure cancer for 20 years and every time I was dismissed as a Luddite that should get with the times.
Now they can sell you "nano texture" at a premium after getting you hooked on functionally terrible displays (they look pretty in the store though).
My worst experience with glossy displays was when I had to perform some work outside on a sunny day and I comically could not see a single thing. It looked like a pure black square. I laughed, packed up and left, and told my boss it wasn't happening.
Unappealing PC matte screens are for old farts who can't appreciate sexy rounded corners and perfectly rendered fonts¹
¹ assuming your display yields over 300dpi
If you are a cool kid, you'll prefer glossy screen any day. Only with deep contrasty blacks will you be able to appreciate your low-contrast macos interface or your low-contrast VScode solarized theme. Occasional gorgeous reflection of stunning you squinting at the screen is just a nice bonus.
But I have to give it to Apple: PC glossy screens are mostly even worse.
This is a great option if you work outdoors a lot. As a designer though, I couldn’t get used to the “dusty” appearance of the nano texture (and yes, contrast loss – glossy displays are just more punchy) at least on the Pro Display XDR. You mostly get used to it if you aren’t doing design, I’m guessing.
Def a tradeoff that depends on your lifestyle if you work outside a lot (or want to). It does look nice there in the mountains
It looks great but I can't imagine I'll be up to the cleaning protocol.
For outdoor use, I've had some decent success with the app Vivid which hijacks various MacOS abilities to superbrighten your display: https://www.getvivid.app/
If you're going to compare screen reflections at a certain physical point, put the screens you're comparing (they're real easy to move) at that certain physical point. Don't put them side by side. Poor reviews are worse than worthless.
>Don't put them side by side. Poor reviews are worse than worthless.
In this particular case it's probably fine because the pictures are outdoors, and the reflections are (presumably) far away, so parallax isn't that much of an issue.
So, a friend of mine happens to be a very senior high energy laser engineer in the Valley and knows way more about optics than any reasonable person. If I shared his bone fides, it would out him, but suffice to say we had a chat about the XDR screen one time, mainly in comparison to the Dell, and he uses Windows while I use a Mac or Linux. With the utter confidence of someone who has better things to think about he said "Oh, the texture is created by exposing it to hydrofluoric acid. That's just the only way you do this." And then went back to talking about the lack of physical controls, which is what ultimately led him to buy the Dell.
All that to say, this Jon.Bo statement "Basically, it’s a coating" is false. It's not a coating. When you're looking at a nanotexture screen, you're just looking through glass.
"The surface of the glass cover member may then be chemically etched. Chemical etching techniques for glass cover members may involve using a suitable acid or base (e.g., a hydrofluoric acid-based etchant)".
I love their little redirections, like "a suitable acid or base".
Also: don't try this at home kids. Quick notes from our friend Gemini:
Safety & Dangers of HF Vapor
* Extreme Hazard: HF vapor is highly corrosive, toxic, and can cause severe burns, blindness, and systemic poisoning, even at low concentrations.
* PPE Required: Full protective gear, including chemical suits, respirators, and face shields, is essential.
* Ventilation: Must be done in a dedicated, high-flow chemical fume hood with water access.
Patents are supposed to protect the inventor’s interest. The trick is to divulge enough details to get protection, but not enough that competitors can just copy. So if a patent says “a hydrofluoric acid-based etchant” you can almost be sure that ingredients other than HF will be necessary in a fashion that’s not immediately clear until it is tried. The actual formulation will be a trade secret. What’s also unsaid is of course, the concentration of HF, the duration of exposing the glass to HF, the temperature at which this is done, the method of applying HF to the glass and the method to remove residue HF, etc.
That same paragraph also describes ways in which it can be accomplished other than chemical etching ("...chemical etching, laser ablation, mechanical removal of material, mechanical pre-treatment followed by etching, lithography in combination with etching, and combinations thereof.").
There are also paragraphs describing applying "a plurality of inorganic dielectric layers".
Like most patents, it's hard to understand what has actually gone into production here. Could be done in a variety of ways consistent with the patent. The inorganic coatings are mentioned in claim 1, so the actual new aspect is probably the combination of etching and specific coatings.
Re the screen rubbing on the keyboard, I've really enjoyed using the Ghostblanket from UPPERCASE, which is just a small microfibery-kinda liner meant to fit on top of the keyboard when it's closed. Also good for keeping finger oils off the screen.
Dunno how that interacts with the nano texture, but I feel like it's made my MacBook screens last a decent bit longer. There's other brands that also make these kinds of cloths, but Apple lowered the clearance between the keyboard and screen after around the 2016 MacBook? So the old brand I was using stopped fitting.
It's interesting to learn MBs also have this. I think my Framework (13) is the first laptop where I noticed such scratches, while my cheaper HP did not have it. Or is it lesser on glossy screens?
I think it's more prevalent on thin laptops? because the screen clearance is lower, and they're laptops that tend to be in transit more; pressure pushing the two sides together in backpack or when picking it up in one hand.
You have to be careful wiping these. I've always ignored instructions, wiped the Macbook screens directly for all my life. Do that on one of these and you'll get these little white smudges visible on blacks.
I shot the Phlex on Rails video course outside last summer with a glossy screen and barely notice reflections or glare, mainly because I setup shop under the shade of large oak trees. The bigger issue with direct sunlight is the glare off the chassis and heat, even when it’s 75F/24C outside.
It's nice to know there are people whose preferences are so different to my own. I'm much happier using a computer indoors, as much as I love doing other things outdoors.
> Closing the MacBook results in slight rubbing on the screen at the bottom of the keyboard
I really believe something needs to be done on that issue. As the author said, this isn't a new issue and is becoming the weak spot of any MacBook. Like we have full metal shell but the own keyboard causes damage to the screen.
> The screen needs more effort to keep clean than a normal screen and comes with a special wipe that needs to be used instead of microfiber
> I’ve learned to bring my special wipe when I bring my laptop, and I slip a few rubbing alcohol wipes in there as well.
Not for me then, the extra flexibility wouldn't be worth the loss of convenience; I prefer low maintenance and I work mostly indoors anyway. Still, good to have options, I guess.
Works great. I also got a huge one for my TV. Once I learned how to press the bubbles out I was good. The trick is to use a larger bubble to catch the smaller ones and press them out the sides.
Oh, I see Macbook screens may become actually usable again. All the Macbooks my employers issued to me previously were only usable with an external screen, or at least with all ceiling lights off, and away from windows.
While I’m glad for the author, in that they’ve found something that delights them, this just seems like a really long-winded way to say “matte screens have less glare” - not a new fact.
There are special surfaces (also used in some TVs I believe) which actually reflect somewhat less light. I assume this "nano texture" is something like that. (Of course the screen being matte also helps.)
Pay attention to the compatibility list though. If you use the Cloth™ on an iPhone 4 or earlier then you're in uncharted territory, who knows what could happen.
I thought the same. I had no idea there was a special cloth in the box. I'll have to dig it up and search for it. It sounds like a quality microfiber cloth is still fine though.
I’ve been using a nano iPad Pro for a year or so now and fingerprints have never once bothered me. The cleaning cloth works great. I love the nano screen as reflections are just not a problem any more.
I just bought an iPad Pro and really wanted the nano-texture, but that would mean I would also have to upgrade the storage and it made the device too expensive for me.
I bought a Paperlike 3 screen protector and it's ok. Not great, not terrible.
Yeah, the screen is a very costly upgrade but since I'm on it so many hours per day, I was willing to pay the price. Glare is just never a problem, no matter where I am.
It is not, you did what I usually do, read the title and jump directly into comments. It's a special coating which works differently to standard matte screens wich makes it way superior.
I did read the article and can correct you because it's not a coating, it's etched. What I would like to know is why anyone should choose that over a normal matte display panel. I don't see the purpose
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: the nano texture screen decreases the apparent pixel density, so much that my eyes don’t perceive them as retina screens. With nano texture, my eyes feel like looking at individual pixels even though they are not. It introduces a noticeable blurry effect. It’s a huge turn-off. Apple introduced retina screens back in 2010 and this viscerally felt like going back to 2009.
I do not recommend buying nano texture screens without having seen one. I get it that some people won’t be bothered but it’s a big no-no for me. Traditional matte screens are way better.
umm, anti-glare/matte used to be the norm for LCD. Around 2005-2006 that changed. As laptops became more of a consumer product, and DVD watching was an important usage, the glossy screens became the norm.
So, I would call it a massive step backwards! The 2006 MBP had an optional glossy screen, and the 2008 was the first one with default glossy. Around 2012 Apple dropped the matte option altogether.
> Typical matt displays have a coating added to their surface that scatters light. However, these coatings lower contrast while producing unwanted haze and sparkle.
> Etched into the glass at the nanometre level, the nano-texture scatters light to further minimise glare
So both matte displays and nano-texture glass scatter light, and they both reduce contrast.
Not to my knowledge, I think Samsung was one of their manufacturers for a while, but they do have patents on nano texture which differs somewhat apparently from traditional matte screens. I'd love to understand more of the differences and more about their manufacturing process though.
Not a single demonstration of contrast?
We've had matte screens for a long time that don't show glare. The problem is, the blacks are much more washed-out because that light still has to go somewhere, so it's basically just being smeared across the entire display.
This page shows lots of side-by-side photos of content that is primarily white, and most of the black bits (like text) are too small to make out.
The comparison needs to use things like busy photographs with bright areas and black areas. Then you can judge how much more washed-out the black areas look.
The second photo makes the Nano texture look pretty washed-out, but sadly doesn't include the traditional glossy laptop next to it for comparison, so it's impossible to tell.
Also, in all the side-by-side photos the Nano screen looks like it's set to much brighter. So any fair comparison should have them set to equal brightness. There's no universe in which a glossy screen is going to make the white areas look darker, as they are in all these examples.
I'm very curious if/how the Nano is better, but unfortunately these photos don't do anything to demonstrate it.
Contrast is worse, it's a trade off. For me in most environments there will be bright reflections on the glossy screens, even indoors - your brain actually does a good job of ignoring them to the point you're not even conciously aware most of the time, but when you smear them out with the nano texture display it's just way more comfortable to look at, for me at least.
If I was focused on watching movies, or grading photos in a dark room then glossy would be the way to go.
Depends a lot on the screen and environment in my experience.
A glossy Apple Studio Display or iMac (both of which have a decent antiglare treatment despite being glossy) in an office setting for example isn’t too bad.
On the other hand, your average touchscreen laptop (which are always almost-mirrors with no hint of treatment, for some reason) with screen angled up slightly and overhead fluorescent tube lighting or a skylight on the other hand? Borderline useless if the screen isn’t bright enough to outshine the strong glare covering 40-60%+ of the screen.
I really like the nano texture display. But I occasionally like to dabble with my camera, sometimes pushing things around in editing apps and after seeing how an unedited photo rendered on a coworkers macbook with the nano texture, I sadly went for the gloss on my own purchase. It's not a huge difference and probably not even a dealbreaker to most, but it's already hard enough to find a best fit for varied color spaces out there who I share photos with and I didn't want to add another variable to the equation. When you're trying to deal with shadows it does get annoying when you're nerfed even just a little bit trying to determine how much detail is in the shadows.
It's admittedly a very obvious tradeoff, but part of me was hoping some new magic existed with the nano texture since everyone was ranting and raving about it on its release. Figured maybe just maybe it could've given me the best of both worlds. Nope. As it turns out people who make "review videos" often times don't know what the hell they're talking about. I've learned to tune those out and just source my purchasing info from people who do things im also interested in doing. In practical application it was an easy decision to make. For my use case glossy display just made more sense, I dork with photos/videos many times a year whereas I sit outside in the sun with my laptop maybe once a year if I'm traveling. And even in those scenarios the glossy display is fine.
Appreciate the feedback and notes here- I would love to revisit the methodology and use a separate physical brightness meter to normalize for that. To my best memory I made sure both devices were at max stock brightness for each photo.
> Not a single demonstration of contrast?
The nano-texture has less contrast.
"The nano-texture adds a filter-like appearance, resulting in a lower contrast ratio than the glossy panel. That said, there are differing opinions about the subjective appearance of the raised blacks. Some say it's a dealbreaker, while others prefer it, arguing that it looks more like what you would see on paper. The glossy panel produces a deeper, more Google Pixel HDR type of contrast that some find unnatural." — https://www.rtings.com/laptop/learn/apple-nano-texture
I'd definitely recommend popping to an Apple store at some point and looking at a nano display in person. It's really kind of freaky, it has a paper-like quality to it that I've not seen with any other laptop display. I'm not sure a picture or a description is ever going to cut it.
It’s perfect for the iPad, it adds just a little friction to the pen and makes it much more paper like in feel too.
Last year, I bought a MBP with both screen types (at the recommendation of an Apple employee - they said just return the one I didn’t like) and compared them side by side for a few days. I also spent some time in the Apple Store, looking at iMacs side by side, since they were the only things they had on display with the Nano Texture.
tl;dr in perfect lighting conditions - which I noticed the Apple Store did a pretty good job at - the glossy screen wins, obviously. The contrast is quite a bit better, pictures really pop, and text isn’t particularly affected. In anything other than perfect lighting, Nano Texture wins by a mile.
If you’re going to be doing any kind of photo or video work, you’ll probably want the glossy screen, or (what I suspect most would have) the Nano Texture, with a dedicated external monitor for the best of both worlds.
If you’re primarily using your laptop for anything other than photo / video work, or if you use it mobile, you want the Nano Texture screen. I can’t objectively say what you lose in contrast ratio, but it’s not bad enough to overcome the huge disparity in glare reduction. I haven’t regretted my Nano Texture MBP for a second.
Your idea makes a lot of sense - external OLED glossy monitor color calibrated for the room used for serious photo and color theory. And for portable use the nano texture laptop screen.
I suppose if you really wanted to get fancy you could calibrate the nano texture screen against the proper monitor and then add an export filter that accounted for the contrast adjustment when using your machine portably
There is a photo with predominantly black background here: https://jon.bo/nano-texture/side-by-side-dark.jpg
Here's a question, what's the point of having deep blacks when they're ruined by bright, distracting reflections? if image quality is going to be degraded either way, a dim, broad reflection is MUCH better than a sharp one. matte screens win in pretty much all scenarios except when the display is the only light source in the room.
In a dark ish room with decent lighting you shouldn't get a ton of reflections.
A physical glare shield (top and sides of screen ) might be the best of all worlds
> There's no universe in which a glossy screen is going to make the white areas look darker, as they are in all these examples.
Actually I do think I get this effect in sunny environments on my glossy screen, and end up wishing my work laptop had the nano texture.
Ultimately, I bought the nano-texture 16", and have not hesitated on that choice once. It's also far easier to maintain; while the glossy screen just gets nasty over time, the nano-texture is still pretty much mint after a year.
This won't be a problem when Apple migrate all macs to OLED as blacks will be true black (no light). I have a Samsung SD95 that has a glare free chemical coating and it is amazing on rooms with too much light with no greyish black on low light conditions (at least from my personal experience).
No, matte screens having nothing to do with the underlying contrast.
The blacks are getting washed out from light in the room that is diffused by the matte finish. Not light coming from the pixels.
The final black contrast is limited by both the underlying pixel technology and the screen finish. You get true black only with both OLED and glossy.
Tangent but the screen scratches mentioned from the keyboard are annoying. Every generation of MacBook has suffered from them and everyone’s seems to have it after a while, I guess it’s just physics when it gets stuffed in a bag etc, but any good tips to avoid it? I’ve heard mixed things about keeping a cloth in there
I'm on my third mac which has a glossy screen and tight tolerances. I won't sweat it.
The hardness of the coating is getting better with every generation. I'm on my M1 MacBook, which I'm using for ~4 years every day. The scratches are visible, but becomes almost invisible when I clean the screen. Moreover they're invisible when the screen is on. My 10 year old Unibody also has them, and while they're worse, they're not visible either.
The best defense is having a padded case and using it even carrying in a bag. Carrying a cloth can bend and damage the screen in worse ways.
Alcohol? After research on Apple they allow:
source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/104948But never apply it directly on screen. I think it's important to mention you just do not use "some alcohol" but it should be 70% isopropyl alcohol solution.
Btw. alcohol is a very good way to destroy the old glossy screens (non nano texture).
> Btw. alcohol is a very good way to destroy the old glossy screens (non nano texture).
Respectful disagree. My partner's family's go-to surface spray has always been a home-made mix of ~30% methylated spirits to water. That's the only bench spray I've used for 10+ years and I can report it's as effective as any commercial spray, and 10% the price. Just mix it at home and use it everywhere. Kitchen, bathroom, anywhere else. I speak as a clean-freak. It works.
It's also amazing for cleaning laptop screens. I spray it directly on. I shouldn't. I do. I type this on a 5-year-old Macbook Air whose screen has been cleaned countless times using this method. It looks like this. (The moon-surface-like texture at the top is the texture of the reflected wall, above.) https://share.cleanshot.com/bnHrCQDZ
1. Make this mixture in a $1 spray bottle at home.
2. Lock your laptop and press Escape so the screen turns off. Lay it screen-back-down, keyboard open at about 80°, so it sits on the bench.
3. Spray a small amount of this mixture on the screen, directly. But don't be shy. Just don't have the screen be swimming.
4. Wipe carefully with a kitchen towel.
5. Repeat as necessary.
So far the only danger I've found is catching an abrasive particle in the cloth in the wiping process. A pre-wipe can alleviate the issue.
Yeah, I've always used lens wipes after an Apple employee recommended them to me, said it was what they used in-store (at least at the time):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCOUY05?th=1
Apparently they're 39.5% isopropyl alcohol. 1 wipe is basically enough to clean 1 laptop screen before it all evaporates. Been using them for over a decade now on my MacBook Airs.
I believe Apple stores used to use "Whoosh" cleaning spray along with a cloth replaced once a day. It's an alcohol free cleaning solution (very similar to alcohol free eyeglass cleaners).
Mild alcohol causing issues for MBP screens was primarily an issue with 2012-2014 "staingate" (due to defects in the coating process).
Lens wipes are only ~30% alcohol and are probably fine assuming correct application, but I guess given how often staingate has appeared as coatings get more complex there's a risk... Unfortunately you either have to tradeoff "contains alcohol but completely clean wipe" versus "alcohol free but using a cloth that might be contaminated by dust/grit".
Maybe you could do alcohol free eyeglass solution (or maybe even ROR fluid) + lens tissue (e.g. kimwipe).
I've researched a little deeper. Apparently it depends on the mixture and on the model of your laptop.
I've written that because I remember of "staingate" of Apple Laptops. Apparently the 2012–2017 Retina models were really not okay with alcohol solutions.
So depending on the manufacturing year and alcohol solution percentage you can be fine with alcohol on glossy displays.
You said: alcohol can be an amazing way to clean screens.
It's still true that: alcohol is a very good way to destroy the old glossy screens.
I do similar but 30% Isopropyl Alcohol and I mix with distilled water.
Apple recommends Zeiss lens wipes (70% alcohol — https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Moistened-Lens-Cleaning-Wipes-Alc...) or Zeiss cleaning spray with Vision Pro Polishing Cloth for use on Vision Pro prescription optical inserts, optical displays, and external display/cover glass. Is there any better vote of confidence than that for cleaning state-of-the-art glass?
https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-vision-pro/use-zeiss-o...
https://support.apple.com/en-us/119574#:~:text=If%20you%20ca...
https://www.zeiss.com/meditec/en/myzeiss/instructions-for-us...
The screen has an oleophobic coating. That is the danger of alcohol, that it strips the coating. For your phone absolutely don't do this. For your laptop it should be fine.
I've always wondered how long that coating stays on there? Most people I know, including myself use a screenprotector anyway
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I tried the iPad with Nano Texture and didn’t really like the rainbow effect that shows up on white brackgrounds. So I ended up returning it.
A while later I had an idea to mount an iPad to my fridge so that I could check the weather, add things to my shopping list, play music, etc. I bought the rather expensive iPad with Nano Texture screen and it has been amazing to use. There is a big window opposite the fridge, and without the nano texture the glare from behind makes it hard to read what’s on the screen.
Not sure I would enjoy nano texture on my MacBook. For outdoor use I found that Vivid is great to turn up the brightness using the extended range of HDR that Apple doesn’t otherwise allow me to use.
I would think Nano on an iPad would be a problem.
IPads are sort of the Platonic Ideal of the type of environment that he says is an issue. Fingerprints, chaotic environment, etc.
Mine is mounted to the fridge, so it's not seeing as much use as it otherwise would. Screen does get smudges and they are more noticeable compared to the regular iPad screen. Not so much that it's a problem to be honest. I wipe it down every few weeks, and that's fine with me.
I definitely enjoy the nanotexture on my MacBook. I didn't know they had it on iPads now and I'm due for a new iPad. Hmmm....
What's annoying is that the bezel is still glossy. Bright reflections moving across it tend to be distracting.
Apparently they leave it glossy so that it doesn't impact the camera quality. I remember reading this somewhere but can't confirm the source sorry.
They would have to leave the sensors out, but could cover the rest of the bezel. They don’t do it because then the sensors would be more visible. But I’d prefer them to put function over aesthetics.
> the bezel is still glossy
... on the iPad. I have a nanotexture MacBook and double-checked. It's textured all the way across. But you're right, the bezel of the iPad is glossy (1). Why would they do that? Is it masked off or a separate piece of glass?
(1) https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/comments/1cwppel/m4_ipad_pro_s...
General question but how do you charge it while it's on the fridge?
I recently purchased a "paperlike" for my iPad Pro (M4, if it matters).
I'll be honest, it has made the writing like 20% better, but the touching about 50% worse.
The feel of the screen is somewhat irritating, though it looks nice when the backlight is dim so I thought I'd go to Apple and check out the nano-texture.
All I can say is that subjectively, I liked it even less.
I have no idea how people can live with nanotexture on iPad screens.
That said, a consistent issue I have with my Macbook Air and my iPad pro is that the "peripherals" touch the screen. My Macbook ends up with oily cubes where the keyboard and its edge has rubbed up against the screen display; and similarly on the iPad I have a perpetual line where the smart folio has its segments.
I thought I had unusually oily hands and started washing more frequently, but that seems to have made the problem worse somehow. :\
I just keep a clean microfiber cloth in my bag and wipe down my keyboard and trackpad from time to time. It really cuts down on getting the screen dirty from the other side of the laptop.
There's honestly not much you can do to prevent the "oily cubes" problem, especially if you keep the laptop docked often. You'll just have to clean the screen more often.
I've seen some people place a keyboard-sized microfibre cloth in between the keyboard and display but I'm not sure how well that actually works in practice. It might cause other issues.
> I've seen some people place a keyboard-sized microfibre cloth in between the keyboard and display but I'm not sure how well that actually works in practice. It might cause other issues.
The tolerance is tight enough here that folks used to damage their displays this way. You need an extremely thin layer here if you are going to do this.
Absolutely. I honestly wouldn't ever recommend doing this. Imo, you should just spent a little extra time cleaning your display over taking dubious preventative measures.
And your keyboard! Turns out cleaning the finger-oils off your keyboard before it transfers to the screen is a pretty solid approach.
Boo! Hiss!
… (Thanks for the advice.)
Looks like you're in a dire need for an official Apple Polishing Cloth with... list of compatible devices to maintain your sanity levels /s
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mw693am/a/polishing-cloth
Being serious, I'm always wearing nitrile gloves if whatever I have to clean is dirty - plus it's also a protection against detergents. A spare Samsung phone I've got mid-pandemic I had to purify with isopropyl because young guy who was selling it clearly didn't care much about all the gunk.
I HATE the oily squares on my MacBook Air screen. I think the real issue is that there is zero space between the screen and the keyboard when the laptop is closed. I’ve started keeping a piece of printer paper between the screen and keyboard whenever I close it, and that helps but it’s annoying to have to do. So much so that I looked into getting a MBP but they have the same problem.
I'd take an ever so slightly thicker laptop that avoided this (never seen this on a Thinkpad for example) but Apple seems to be obsessed with the thinnest of everything possible
Author here, I published this a few months back but have been continuing to use it on a daily basis - everything I wrote stands
Feel free to ask any other questions!
I tried the iPad Pro with Nano Texture and found the display to have a rainbow grain, especially on pure white backgrounds.
Are you bothered by anything similar on the MacBook?
I personally haven't noticed that. I am also primarily coding & writing rather than image editing or such so am less sensitive to things like that fwiw.
You’re not the only one to mention that in this thread. I’ve had a nanotextured MacBook as a daily driver for about six months, and I have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe the issue is iPad only?
Rainbow isn't really the right term. It's more of a sparkling effect. Apple actually uses the term "sparkle" for this characteristic in their patent for the display treatment (see para 0073). They also mention that different diffractive layers can be used to minimize the effect, so it is possible that the issue is worse on some devices than others.
Well whatever it is, my MBP screen looks perfectly fine. It's like a matte display, but not with the colors all washed out like the matte displays of yore. No visible artifacts of any kind that I can see.
I don't touch my display on my MacBook and it's always yucky because of the finger oils on my keyboard, so the thought of having to use a special cloth to clean it always seemed like too much of a hassle for me compared to the glossy display. I did wonder if this improved ever since they added nano texture to the ipad pro, but sounds like fingerprints are still annoying.
For the longest time, I kept the sheet of foam that comes with the new laptop. Eventually that got lost. I then picked up a pre-cut bit of microfiber that fit the laptop and thin enough to allow for full closing. Once you get in the habit of remembering to put the cloth back before closing the lid, you'll be amazed at your screen's lack of oils.
I can't even type on a keyboard that is oily so I make an effort to never eat around my machine and always keep my hands clean. I clean my macbooks about 1x per month using isopropyl on a microfiber cloth.
I clean my MacBook Pro keyboard daily (or almost every time I use it) with either water only or if it’s really yucky, a ~30% isopropyl alcohol spray.
I use a regular yellow microfiber towel (usually from the giant bag I pick up from Costco every few years)
Afterward I use it to wipe off the screen.
Personally I’ve never had any issues with screen coating except on the older 2012-2015 MacBook Pros where my fingernails eventually caused the coating to scratch by the webcam (when opening the display, I suspect)
A note about new microfiber towels: they need to be washed prior to use or they’ll leave little bits of plastic micro fibers all over whatever you’re trying to clean
Most of the time plain water and moist microfiber towel will make it look new again.
It does nothing for wear on the keycaps though my command key and a few keys like A, Z, W, and S are wearing away and look slightly glossy.
I've found the nano-texture macbook pro screen to be way more resilient, and the cloth that comes with it is (I hate to say it) amazing. I use nearly identical 16" Macbook Pros heavily, one with nano and one without, and the nano is easier to keep perfect, usually with no liquid required. The glossy screen is easily damaged
I've been using a sunshield I made out of some black mat board for at least a decade now. There's a few little magnets in it to cling to the magnets hidden in my Mac's lid. It's been on like 3-5 computers now, looking increasingly battered; whenever I upgrade I get to see if the magnets are in the same orientation or not.
Works great, I keep it in the padded pocket in my laptop bag next to the computer and the drawing tablet and take it out when I'm sitting in the park.
Have any links to picture, plans, or similar? Or did you just wing it?
I'd like this for the iPhone where glare is actually a real problem and fidelity is less of a concern.
I would never consider a matte display at home because I keep my computers in dark environments like a real nerd.
This reminds me of why my old 2003 Toshiba Portege R100 so far has been my favourite alltime laptop.
- It was thinner overall than a Macbook Air, BEFORE it came out (watching people get hyped about Air's was just a snooze)
- Transreflexive screen in color (like that "daylight computer" in TFA), not the brightest when it comes to light but certainly bright enough, and more improtantly worked 100% without issues outside in the sun (turning the screen _towards_ the sun was actually a better choice!). It's really a shame they went out of favour for "glossy" displays.
- Extra ram and that Pentium M cpu that was neck-to-neck with P4's for certain workloads (telling people of compile times had people in disbelief)
It’s always amusing how much Apple’s adoption of generic tech is hyped up and overanalysed online, and made into a must have feature making all alternatives unsuitable.
The nano texture screen coating is clearly better for my purposes vs a glossy screen. Reading text gives less eye strain and there’s a slight ePaper-esque quality to things that’s just relaxing. Maybe some argument to be had for pure media consumption or image editing.
I don’t think Apple’s screen coating tech is anything magical or different to what’s on tons of decent monitors, Benq for one.
For marketing reasons, Apple only make this screen available in the MacBook Pro. For my use, this is needless extra cost, weight and bulk. I’m already paying hundreds extra for a coated screen, there’s no reason it can’t be made available on the MacBook Air too.
I’d still buy a MacBook if nano coating didn’t exist, the screen ratio, SoC and trackpad quality are still not close to being matched. Not to mention the fact that basically no other laptop is even available to buy in the UK with a US keyboard layout.
To be fair they always come up with pretty marketing names :)
It's not high dpi, it's a retina display!
It's not a matte display, it's a nano texture!
You clearly don’t know what Apple’s nano texture is nor have you read the article.
Nano texture is not a coating. It is different than the coatings offered by competitors because of this.
From what I read it's the same thing as the etched screen of the Steam Deck which is not a coating either. Again, Apple didn't invent anything.
> it's the same thing as the etched screen of the Steam Deck
Steam Deck nano-textured display: late 2023
Apple nano-textured display: late 2019
Might be the same but Apple have a 4 year headstart.
> Apple didn't invent anything
They do have the patent though - https://patents.google.com/patent/US11199929B2/en
If you compare both side by side, you'll also see that apple's textured screen is superior in terms of sharpness and color/vibrancy.
And no, it is not exactly the same tech.
could you share a picture of the comparison?
I've been saying glossy screens are pure cancer for 20 years and every time I was dismissed as a Luddite that should get with the times.
Now they can sell you "nano texture" at a premium after getting you hooked on functionally terrible displays (they look pretty in the store though).
My worst experience with glossy displays was when I had to perform some work outside on a sunny day and I comically could not see a single thing. It looked like a pure black square. I laughed, packed up and left, and told my boss it wasn't happening.
glossy screens are better for visual clarity, especially contrast (reduces eye strain when reading text)
Yes the visual clarity of staring into a reflection of my own shirt, and any light within 10m.
There is no worse eye strain that looking at anything that isn't supposed to be on the screen. It's 90% noise.
The glossy screens have like 2% more contrast but 300% more distracting reflections.
How dare you even trying to compare otherworldly nanotexture™®© to a regular horrible PC matte screen!
Unappealing PC matte screens are for old farts who can't appreciate sexy rounded corners and perfectly rendered fonts¹
¹ assuming your display yields over 300dpi
If you are a cool kid, you'll prefer glossy screen any day. Only with deep contrasty blacks will you be able to appreciate your low-contrast macos interface or your low-contrast VScode solarized theme. Occasional gorgeous reflection of stunning you squinting at the screen is just a nice bonus.
But I have to give it to Apple: PC glossy screens are mostly even worse.
This is a great option if you work outdoors a lot. As a designer though, I couldn’t get used to the “dusty” appearance of the nano texture (and yes, contrast loss – glossy displays are just more punchy) at least on the Pro Display XDR. You mostly get used to it if you aren’t doing design, I’m guessing.
Def a tradeoff that depends on your lifestyle if you work outside a lot (or want to). It does look nice there in the mountains
It looks great but I can't imagine I'll be up to the cleaning protocol.
For outdoor use, I've had some decent success with the app Vivid which hijacks various MacOS abilities to superbrighten your display: https://www.getvivid.app/
Yes, the HDR boost is awesome as well, combined with nano texture it feels like overkill, but I love it.
If you're going to compare screen reflections at a certain physical point, put the screens you're comparing (they're real easy to move) at that certain physical point. Don't put them side by side. Poor reviews are worse than worthless.
>Don't put them side by side. Poor reviews are worse than worthless.
In this particular case it's probably fine because the pictures are outdoors, and the reflections are (presumably) far away, so parallax isn't that much of an issue.
Thank you. Yes, your distance point (ie the sun!) is valid.
I could have added, also maintain the exact camera position too.
And had I spent more thought on replying, I'd suggest a short video would surely be most informative. I liked the article overall.
Appreciate the suggestion!
So, a friend of mine happens to be a very senior high energy laser engineer in the Valley and knows way more about optics than any reasonable person. If I shared his bone fides, it would out him, but suffice to say we had a chat about the XDR screen one time, mainly in comparison to the Dell, and he uses Windows while I use a Mac or Linux. With the utter confidence of someone who has better things to think about he said "Oh, the texture is created by exposing it to hydrofluoric acid. That's just the only way you do this." And then went back to talking about the lack of physical controls, which is what ultimately led him to buy the Dell.
All that to say, this Jon.Bo statement "Basically, it’s a coating" is false. It's not a coating. When you're looking at a nanotexture screen, you're just looking through glass.
Since I'm sure someone will challenge me, I looked it up. Here's Apple's patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220326413A1/en
and the key section from paragraph 0117:
"The surface of the glass cover member may then be chemically etched. Chemical etching techniques for glass cover members may involve using a suitable acid or base (e.g., a hydrofluoric acid-based etchant)".
I love their little redirections, like "a suitable acid or base".
Also: don't try this at home kids. Quick notes from our friend Gemini:
Safety & Dangers of HF Vapor
* Extreme Hazard: HF vapor is highly corrosive, toxic, and can cause severe burns, blindness, and systemic poisoning, even at low concentrations.
* PPE Required: Full protective gear, including chemical suits, respirators, and face shields, is essential.
* Ventilation: Must be done in a dedicated, high-flow chemical fume hood with water access.
Patents are supposed to protect the inventor’s interest. The trick is to divulge enough details to get protection, but not enough that competitors can just copy. So if a patent says “a hydrofluoric acid-based etchant” you can almost be sure that ingredients other than HF will be necessary in a fashion that’s not immediately clear until it is tried. The actual formulation will be a trade secret. What’s also unsaid is of course, the concentration of HF, the duration of exposing the glass to HF, the temperature at which this is done, the method of applying HF to the glass and the method to remove residue HF, etc.
That same paragraph also describes ways in which it can be accomplished other than chemical etching ("...chemical etching, laser ablation, mechanical removal of material, mechanical pre-treatment followed by etching, lithography in combination with etching, and combinations thereof.").
There are also paragraphs describing applying "a plurality of inorganic dielectric layers".
Like most patents, it's hard to understand what has actually gone into production here. Could be done in a variety of ways consistent with the patent. The inorganic coatings are mentioned in claim 1, so the actual new aspect is probably the combination of etching and specific coatings.
Re the screen rubbing on the keyboard, I've really enjoyed using the Ghostblanket from UPPERCASE, which is just a small microfibery-kinda liner meant to fit on top of the keyboard when it's closed. Also good for keeping finger oils off the screen.
Dunno how that interacts with the nano texture, but I feel like it's made my MacBook screens last a decent bit longer. There's other brands that also make these kinds of cloths, but Apple lowered the clearance between the keyboard and screen after around the 2016 MacBook? So the old brand I was using stopped fitting.
Products like these make me feel like a grandma wrapping her remote in plastic.
It's interesting to learn MBs also have this. I think my Framework (13) is the first laptop where I noticed such scratches, while my cheaper HP did not have it. Or is it lesser on glossy screens?
I think it's more prevalent on thin laptops? because the screen clearance is lower, and they're laptops that tend to be in transit more; pressure pushing the two sides together in backpack or when picking it up in one hand.
You have to be careful wiping these. I've always ignored instructions, wiped the Macbook screens directly for all my life. Do that on one of these and you'll get these little white smudges visible on blacks.
I shot the Phlex on Rails video course outside last summer with a glossy screen and barely notice reflections or glare, mainly because I setup shop under the shade of large oak trees. The bigger issue with direct sunlight is the glare off the chassis and heat, even when it’s 75F/24C outside.
I wrote about it at https://beautifulruby.com/articles/portable-workstation-iter... if you want to see the setup.
I wonder if in Apple's skunkworks there's a never-to-be-released software/hardware NanoOn/NanoOff function....
It's nice to know there are people whose preferences are so different to my own. I'm much happier using a computer indoors, as much as I love doing other things outdoors.
I love the nanotexture on my 2020 27” 5k Intel iMac.
Agreed. Glad he's happy, but there's no way I am using a computer for a long time outdoors.
> Closing the MacBook results in slight rubbing on the screen at the bottom of the keyboard
I really believe something needs to be done on that issue. As the author said, this isn't a new issue and is becoming the weak spot of any MacBook. Like we have full metal shell but the own keyboard causes damage to the screen.
> Overall a massive step forward for outdoor computing
“Step forward” that wouldn't have been needed in the first place if Apple didn't kill mat screens in the first place.
> The screen needs more effort to keep clean than a normal screen and comes with a special wipe that needs to be used instead of microfiber
> I’ve learned to bring my special wipe when I bring my laptop, and I slip a few rubbing alcohol wipes in there as well.
Not for me then, the extra flexibility wouldn't be worth the loss of convenience; I prefer low maintenance and I work mostly indoors anyway. Still, good to have options, I guess.
In any case, that was a good and helpful review!
+1 for the nano texture lovers. such a huge QOL improvement if you take your laptop to various places where you can't control the lighting.
The Daylight Computer is a delight — the perfect tablet for blue skies and no shade.
https://daylightcomputer.com/
I ordered a custom matte film from this company for my 27-inch iMac: https://www.glarestopper.com
Works great. I also got a huge one for my TV. Once I learned how to press the bubbles out I was good. The trick is to use a larger bubble to catch the smaller ones and press them out the sides.
Oh, I see Macbook screens may become actually usable again. All the Macbooks my employers issued to me previously were only usable with an external screen, or at least with all ceiling lights off, and away from windows.
The Flatirons are such a unique foothills, they're instantly recognizable.
While I’m glad for the author, in that they’ve found something that delights them, this just seems like a really long-winded way to say “matte screens have less glare” - not a new fact.
There are special surfaces (also used in some TVs I believe) which actually reflect somewhat less light. I assume this "nano texture" is something like that. (Of course the screen being matte also helps.)
You’ve convinced me that this might be worth it on a laptop display.
They give you a cleaning cloth? Did I accidentally throw mine away!?
not to worry. Apple will gladly provide a replacement in exchange for USD$19
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mw693am/a/polishing-cloth
A microfiber cloth apparently so notable that it even has its own Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Polishing_Cloth
Pay attention to the compatibility list though. If you use the Cloth™ on an iPhone 4 or earlier then you're in uncharted territory, who knows what could happen.
You bought a car that requires premium grade fuel, you gotta pay for the premium grade.
Yeah, it was in the box with all the compliance paperwork, where the stickers used to be.
Apple doesn't even include stickers anymore?
I heard they didn't but I got stickers in both my iphone and macbook pro boxes. Go figure.
They stopped including them in late 2024, https://www.macrumors.com/2024/11/07/rip-apple-stickers-kind...
But perhaps that's a north america only thing and other countries continue to receive stickers.
It's not US only, I didn't get stickers with my EU market iPhone Air.
I thought the same. I had no idea there was a special cloth in the box. I'll have to dig it up and search for it. It sounds like a quality microfiber cloth is still fine though.
What's the color accuracy like with the nano texture display? I'd consider buying one if it doesn't make any colors come out dull and washed
> I have to swat other people’s hands away when they try to point something out on my screen with their pizza fingers.
How are fingerprints on iPad Pro nano texture touchscreens?
I’ve been using a nano iPad Pro for a year or so now and fingerprints have never once bothered me. The cleaning cloth works great. I love the nano screen as reflections are just not a problem any more.
I just bought an iPad Pro and really wanted the nano-texture, but that would mean I would also have to upgrade the storage and it made the device too expensive for me.
I bought a Paperlike 3 screen protector and it's ok. Not great, not terrible.
Yeah, the screen is a very costly upgrade but since I'm on it so many hours per day, I was willing to pay the price. Glare is just never a problem, no matter where I am.
It's a shame they don't offer it on the macbook Air
I noticed the difficulty cleaning too. It's why I still consider a matte screen protector superior: you never have to clean it.
excellent article...well done
Thank you!
Is this just a standard matte screen? That's really not something new or innovative...
It is not, you did what I usually do, read the title and jump directly into comments. It's a special coating which works differently to standard matte screens wich makes it way superior.
I did read the article and can correct you because it's not a coating, it's etched. What I would like to know is why anyone should choose that over a normal matte display panel. I don't see the purpose
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: the nano texture screen decreases the apparent pixel density, so much that my eyes don’t perceive them as retina screens. With nano texture, my eyes feel like looking at individual pixels even though they are not. It introduces a noticeable blurry effect. It’s a huge turn-off. Apple introduced retina screens back in 2010 and this viscerally felt like going back to 2009.
I do not recommend buying nano texture screens without having seen one. I get it that some people won’t be bothered but it’s a big no-no for me. Traditional matte screens are way better.
> massive step forward
umm, anti-glare/matte used to be the norm for LCD. Around 2005-2006 that changed. As laptops became more of a consumer product, and DVD watching was an important usage, the glossy screens became the norm.
https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26396
So, I would call it a massive step backwards! The 2006 MBP had an optional glossy screen, and the 2008 was the first one with default glossy. Around 2012 Apple dropped the matte option altogether.
Unfortunately they don't have it for the MacBook Air. Only the heavy Pro.
I thought you could pick a nano texture film on Amazon for cheap ?
How is this different from the Steam Deck optional etched glass?
Found my cleaning cloth in the box after reading this!
> Typical matt displays have a coating added to their surface that scatters light. However, these coatings lower contrast while producing unwanted haze and sparkle.
> Etched into the glass at the nanometre level, the nano-texture scatters light to further minimise glare
So both matte displays and nano-texture glass scatter light, and they both reduce contrast.
Apple makes panels?
Not to my knowledge, I think Samsung was one of their manufacturers for a while, but they do have patents on nano texture which differs somewhat apparently from traditional matte screens. I'd love to understand more of the differences and more about their manufacturing process though.
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