If you live in America, are banking with an American bank, and hold your investments denominated in dollars I'm not sure that just shifting your investments to other global equities would really get you the outcome you want if your goal is to hedge against this specific risk. Besides if this really is the trade war to end all trade wars, the world losing one of the largest markets (the U.S.) is going to depress the entire global economy. I assume if you're even considering VXUS you're not close to retirement so wouldn't the better strategy be to just keep adding to VOO?
I believe that TD's US presence is still a subsidiary of the main Canadian corporation - and there are some banks that will explicitly offer offshore non-US currency accounts. That is a good point to raise though since most banks may offer holdings in overseas funds but if they're managed domestically they'd likely be subject to the same currency shocks and your account may still read well on paper but be effectively unreachable.
I am retired but I have not sold all my stocks and moved to bonds. Even if you use the "rule of 100" I should still have around 40% of my portfolio in stocks.
But to your point, I am certain that I am not going to profit from this fuckery. (Although, hilariously I bought silver a decade ago to teach my daughters about investing—and they each purchased a once or two from me. Of course it turned out to be a local maxima and they grow up, went to college—watching their investment sink all the while. Perhaps they did learn a valuable lesson in investing.)
No, I'm just doing damage control.
I had asked a month or so back as to where the "safe harbors" were during the Great Depression. My impression (and the responses did nothing to contradict this) were that there were no safe harbors—as perhaps there may not be any in some dystopian future we may or may not be headed for.
"Hold, don't sell during the panic," is all anyone could offer. (And so too holding those silver coins until now might also have been a valuable lesson for my daughters?)
> where the "safe harbors" were during the Great Depression [...] were that there were no safe harbors
Surely economy and the world economy operates in a completely different way now than it did back them, if not in the US, the very least in the rest of the world? But that's just my intuition, maybe things are more similar than they are different in reality?
> Of course it turned out to be a local maxima
Not to pour salt into your wounds (sorry), suppose your daughters were born 1980-1990 sometime, you really managed to hit exactly the stagnation phase it seems, that sucks but probably true what you say, still had a lesson in there :) I got curious and maybe others are too, especially if you don't usually look at price of commodities so here: https://www.macrotrends.net/1470/historical-silver-prices-10...
At least during the Great Depression you had independent markets like the USSR. Good luck investing, though. :-) The point about the higher independence of markets still stands. Great Depression was named as such by Americans (just like World Series, etc), but wasn't as global as the name implies.
Nowadays the world's economy operates in even more globalized way and when the biggest players get hit, everyone suffers (1998, dotcom, 2008, covid). That's why the tariff war was such a counter-productive idea; even if you theoretically end up on top, everyone will still lose, including you.
:| I was thinking "Yeah, 1980 probably, then they'd be 20 now, it'd match with the college stuff" and then I thought you were joking with 2011 but yeah, terrible for the same reason :/
What other hedges are there? Gold and silver I am guessing. Anything else to avoid dependency on the US stock market and exposure to the US Dollar? It feels like these assets have nowhere to go but down.
I am genuinely worried that my life savings will be destroyed by high inflation and the decreasing value of the dollar. This is the 3rd major market "correction" in my career and it looks like it will be the worst. Trump is doing so much economic damage to America... the outcomes are unthinkable for working people. I have trouble imagining what life will be like on the other side of this period of financial chaos.
The reality I have come to believe: if it goes down, we all go down. I get worrying about how to protect your life savings, I was worrying too. Now I just accept that we'll all be in the bread lines. Not that there's any comfort in that really, but that it might simply be an inevitability.
If you really dive into Canada's behavior since the Bush administration it's plainly obvious that they have not been a good ally. They have the hubris of the United States with the economy of Mexico. I don't agree with Trump's rhetoric and think his handling of the situation has been antagonistic and counter-productive. But his grievances are legitimate. Canada has been actively undermining the United State's attempts to contain/separate from China. They are using the opportunity to enhance their own economy at the expense of the American people. The historic nature of the relationship between Canada and America has allowed for much of it to stay under the radar. I don't think Canada would be in my top-10 allies list though. I would be much more concerned about losing Japan, South Korea, Mexico or Israel. Canada is what I would have described in high school as a "fake friend".
The only example I can think of is Canada arresting Meng Wanzhou when the US asked, and not backing down in the face of significant Chinese threats, souring Chinese relationships significantly.
But that's an example of Canada being a good ally to the US.
Took Canada 4-years longer than the rest of the Five Eyes alliance to ban them, prompting the Biden administration to threaten to terminate the agreement.
Canada chooses not to participate in the defense of North America from potential threats, deferring the cost and military response entirely to the United States.
The roughly 100 organized crime groups operating in Canada (including three groups dedicated to supplying fentanyl) are partly drawn to loopholes and lax penalties that allow fentanyl-related money-laundering operations to flourish.
Canada remains the only G7 country on the 2025 USTR Watch List. The 2025 USTR Special 301 Report again expressed concerns with Canada's perceived lack of IP enforcement, particularly at the border and against online piracy.
I tried to avoid some of the more common ones, like NATO spending, trade dispute, etc. A lot of this stuff, like providing for the common defense, don't make it easy for cartels launder money, don't look the other way on counterfeit goods, aren't unreasonable demands.
1) The delay came at a tricky time. Canada had arrested Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou on behalf of the USA, and China disappeared two Canadian citizens in retaliation.
4 & 5) Canada has a gun problem, and the guns originate from the USA. Canada has a problem with sick Americans crossing the border and buying meds meant for Canadians. American cross-border concerns about Canada don't hold a candle to that.
6) This is a strange expectation. If it had merit, then the reverse would, too: America is guilty of undercutting Canada's efforts to maintain global free trade.
So that leaves NORAD and the Digital Services tax.
To my mind, it seems like Canada primarily is guilty of being a nation with a few priorities and interests of its own, rather than a state.
Your argument stems from the idea that Canada is not its own country, and that Canadians cannot have their own interests or opinions on how things should be handled.
How dare they not follow the rules and behave like the other 50 states!
This is exactly what Trump's attitude is, and it's why Canadians are angry.
If we look at history, it's no surprise that the US's alliances are fleeing and temporary.
The US doesn't really have any real allies, as any ally could be betrayed for any reason at any time.
Just look at all the betrayals that Trump was personally responsible for, such as Afghanistan, NATO, Canada, Ukraine, the Kurds, and Syria. Poor Kurds have to watch as Trump shakes hands with the leader of Al-Qaeda, who is currently carrying out ethnic cleansing and massacring people.
Alliances should be mutual. What has the US done for Canada lately, especially considering the outrageous demands? Like what has the US done that benefitted Canada, but also cost the US at least in some way (so no BS about "US is growing and Canada is having some of the pie")? In what way has the US suffered and didn't grab as much as it was able to, just so Canada-the-ally would also be taken care of? When has the Trump's US acted like a real ally/friend instead of a volatile backstabbing bandit with the "winner takes it all and I don't care what happens after" attitude?
I claim that Canada has been much more of an ally to the US than vice versa.
This is your evidence? This is meaningless. The problem is, you’re applying reasoning backwards. You’re starting with the assumption that Trump’s ramblings are justified, so you search for whatever you can find that supports his side, and thus conclude that this evidence is sufficient to justify his claims, because it’s all the evidence out there. Instead of actual reasoning, which would be to start with the question “are his claims justified?”, searching for evidence for and against, and realizing that these few articles in support are dwarfed by the hundreds of billion dollars in trade between the two countries.
What a load of BS, Canada is the best friend the US could ask for.
Remember in 2018 when Canada held Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou under a U.S. extradition request? It tanked Canada/China relations and had trade ramifications Canada is still feeling today.
It's quite odd, the past days there's been this messaging from different users about how old allies haven't been good allies. First I saw this point about Denmark, now Canada.
Hard to understand where this is coming from, it's really odd to see it popping up out of nowhere when barely a year ago this would never have been brought up about any of these countries... Where is the messaging coming from?
That’s fair enough. Part of it is the Trump effect. I tend to dive pretty deep into things when they catch my interest. A lot of time we write things off as crazy simply because we don’t understand the context behind the presumption of insanity. So I try to look under the surface so to speak. I want to know why someone feels the way they do, even if their thesis is a little confused. Almost like: “I see you are very passionate about this, let me figure out why.”
I try to make the world make sense. Communication is a skill and many otherwise smart people simply fail to invest in it. Curiousity I suppose.
There are two things Canada is guilty of.
1) it spent far too little on its military
2) it trusted the Americans far too much by tying its economy so deeply with the USA.
If you subtract the oil purchased by the USA, Canada has a trade surplus with the USA. A trade surplus that's mostly comprised of finished goods. Canada sells raw materials to the USA and buys finished goods from them.
The lack of public awareness is honestly the biggest issue. I’ve got nothing personally against Canada or the Canadian people. And I certainly don’t think Trump’s approach has benefitted the situation. But I also recognize that his grievance have a level of merit. I can critique a government without blaming a people, right? I disagree with how the Canadian government has been handling itself. I think there is a way to resolve these issues, but I think first Canada has to at least acknowledge they exist. Whenever there is discussion like this people love to flood in, eager to defend our neighbor to the north and stick it to Trump. These issues have persisted through many administrations. You ask why Congress doesn’t stop Trump from his actions? It’s because the political consensus in Washington is that they are needed. I have no doubt whoever comes next will blame Trump and declare a new era of friendship and peace. But these issues will be at the core of any new agreement between the countries. People disagree, countries argue. It’s temporary. America wants Canada to succeed and Canada benefits from America’s success. They are just renorming the relationship a bit, which team dynamics tells us takes us back to the storming phase. Give it time and we’ll be rolling along again.
> I think there is a way to resolve these issues, but I think first Canada has to at least acknowledge they exist.
One can't and shouldn't acknowledge the things that don't exist.
Like:
- Venezuela's drugs being a big problem in the USA
- Russia/China trying to take Greenland
- Norwegian government responsible for giving Peace Nobels
- Canada's efforts to poison USA with fentanyl
They are all fake news and anyone spewing that should ridiculed, not engaged and reasoned with to find the compromise. (Example: since we are talking here and I share my eternal wisdom with you, it is only fair that you should give me all of your weath. Oh, you don't think it is reasonable and don't want to give a random guy anything? Fine, it is a fair compromise then in which you give me half of everything. The Greatest Deal!)
Being a good ally isn't just doing entirely what the US says the should do. The US needs to coordinate responses to China and work with allies to come to a shared understanding. How the current administration operates is assuming these allied country are fiefdoms. The economic situation in Canada isn't great, and the US could make it stronger, but refuses to.
The same feedback is largely true for most US allies. If you want people to decouple from China, you need to offset and fix the underlying reason they are trading with them.
I have many complaints about Trump's handling of foreign policy. Don't mistake my tone for approval of his approach. He is needlessly aggressive and domineering. We have tried the carrot approach though. Coalition of the willing. By and large I would say our allies are spiritually willing but physically unable to. If we use Canada for example, I don't think they need to jump at every demand, but things like stopping counterfeit sales (Pacific Mall), taking meaningful steps to stop cartel money laundering (Vancouver), actually meeting military commitments (Ukraine promises). A lot of it doesn't get reported because people don't really want to hear it. Like I said, Trump is not right in his handling of these issues, but Canada allows them to fester because its in their interest.
China captured 2 Canadians as retaliation. Wanting to de-escalate and get them back seems pretty reasonable. Unless the US proposed a military operation to get them back?
You have a laundry list of complaints about Canada's action wrt the US. What would someone like you on Canada's side of the border offer in response, do you think?
All of these issues go back long before Trump, who has made things uniquely worse. But any two countries with as long (and tightly bound) a history as ours are going to have constant points of friction. Are you suggesting Canada is uniquely a "fake friend" in this equation?
This reminds me of the articles about Canadian "snowbirds" selling their stateside pied-à-terre (due to tariffs and deteriorating cross-border relations), presenting it as if it were a bad thing for the average American that foreign ownership of housing was declining, and that the sellers were eager to quickly offload their asset--an asset long overvalued, in short supply, and increasingly out of reach of the average American.
> No single person, or President, has done more for NATO than President Donald J. Trump. If I didn’t come along, there would be no NATO right now!!! It would have been in the ash heap of History. Sad, but TRUE!!! President DJT
> The whole problem we are having with criminals in our Country was caused by Sleepy Joe Biden and the Radical Left Thugs that surrounded the Resolution Desk in the Oval Office - And, of course, the Illegal Use of the Auto Pen!!! They should be in jail!
I understand how there would be one or two people who'd hear that and go "Fuck yeah wooo". It's worrisome to me that a group of people could read/see/listen to that and think that sounds good. It's shocking to me that 77.3 million people could read that and think it's sane, good and is how a president should sound like.
This, and other recents diatribes, project overwhelming "Pop-pop's off his meds" vibes.
At what point, and how, does the US system pants up and bell the cat?
A bipartisan pysch assessment from 11 respected people across the political spectrum blind voting an opinion would likely be unanimous in diagnosis at this point.
Next up will be that the dollar collapse and global economic meltdown are a "conjob" and "conspiracy of the radical left" — pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, aren't the emperor's clothes simply gorgeous?
tRump is a bully. Bullies don't pick on those who are strong enough to fight back. That's why he doesn't say anything about Russia or China. If Russia was in the position it was in the early to mid nineties tRump would very much be bashing Russia.
We spent the 4-years under Biden capturing foreign investment via high interest rates. Now we are trapping them here via poor conversion rates. In a geopolitical, macro-economic sense we are "Elon Musking". Overpromise and under deliver. Take their money by selling them on a dream and then string them along with promises of future results. We have their money and they have "Fully Self Driving" lane-merge warnings.
It is really disturbing to see that most Republican legislators are still not speaking up openly against the Trump administration. That makes them complicit in everything that’s going on - the arrest of US citizens in unconstitutional raids, the illegal tariffs that are taxing all of us, the threats of invasions against other countries, the grift that is adding billions to the Trump family’s wealth, the push to denaturalize legal immigrants, the lack of action on climate change, the dangerous changes to vaccine schedules for children - all of that and more.
Almost all of these, would on their own, have been grounds for impeachment in the past. It shows how far this extremism has come. If Trump is not impeached, which will require a simple majority in the house and 2/3rds in the Senate, I fear he will continue his mental spiral and potentially do something far more deadly like using a nuke. And I am not being hyperbolic; I genuinely fear the next few escalations in his behavior could be far far worse.
That’s shocking. I looked up a few different polls and it looks like the approval ratings have not really changed in months. How is that possible? The events of the last month or two should affect these in one direction or the other, right? I wonder if there is some polling error like maybe in how these questions are phrased or how the people responding are interpreting it?
Yeah.. that's how tribalism works. Dems don't really understand the kind of blank-check popular backing that Trump has.
Studies have shown for a long time the human brain is frequently wired to prioritize group loyalty over factual accuracy. Probably something left over from when we were living in caves in small groups. Trump understands it extremely well. He just has to bring up immigrants and their brain reasoning centers turn off and they start frothing over Haitians eating dogs. Prior to Trump, most white Americans only encountered this if they brought a black girlfriend home.
After Obama, Trump literally rewrote the republican party. Congressmen who weren't falling in line got fired or forced to retire. Many many times, eg see Liz Cheney. The last time a purge like this happened was at the time of the Civil War. Even super-popular FDR tried taking out conservative democrats but wasn't successful (which btw is one of the main reasons we didn't get stuff like universal healthcare in the 1930s; southern democrats decided it was a threat to segregation).
That probably shows us how to stop it: wait for a massive failure like WW2 or the Great Depression, then implement strong safety nets, media, education, etc pretty much everything Western Europe is doing & more (eg housing).
Another solution is for Democrats can move a bit towards the center. Maybe relent on immigration, for example. Obama was more centrist than Biden on this issue. He deported millions of illegal immigrants, while Biden housed them in New York hotels.
It's not gonna work. Dems have been meeting Republicans in the "center" for a long time. Republicans just go further right. You think conservatives like Obama?
It's not a rational thing. Like you said "Biden housing immigrants in hotels" and the implication is that he personally spent trillions on it and the sky is falling.
You need to train people to switch their brains back on, because it's a national security issue. All kinds of policies from free college to a shorter work-week so they have less stress and more time to think. Again, just copy what Western Europe does. They went through it before.
I think this is the bare minimum needed to change the current environment, if approval polls are staying where they are. If Dems support secure borders, protecting women’s sports, and sentencing repeat offenders, they would take away many of the “common sense” things that the GOP can use to hold onto independents. Otherwise, it lets people be outraged at the Dems enough that they would tolerate the extremism we see normalized now.
Thanks everyone who voted for this! I really appreciate you!
I'm no longer adding to my VOO holdings—I guess I'm all in on VXUS going forward.
If you live in America, are banking with an American bank, and hold your investments denominated in dollars I'm not sure that just shifting your investments to other global equities would really get you the outcome you want if your goal is to hedge against this specific risk. Besides if this really is the trade war to end all trade wars, the world losing one of the largest markets (the U.S.) is going to depress the entire global economy. I assume if you're even considering VXUS you're not close to retirement so wouldn't the better strategy be to just keep adding to VOO?
I believe that TD's US presence is still a subsidiary of the main Canadian corporation - and there are some banks that will explicitly offer offshore non-US currency accounts. That is a good point to raise though since most banks may offer holdings in overseas funds but if they're managed domestically they'd likely be subject to the same currency shocks and your account may still read well on paper but be effectively unreachable.
I am retired but I have not sold all my stocks and moved to bonds. Even if you use the "rule of 100" I should still have around 40% of my portfolio in stocks.
But to your point, I am certain that I am not going to profit from this fuckery. (Although, hilariously I bought silver a decade ago to teach my daughters about investing—and they each purchased a once or two from me. Of course it turned out to be a local maxima and they grow up, went to college—watching their investment sink all the while. Perhaps they did learn a valuable lesson in investing.)
No, I'm just doing damage control.
I had asked a month or so back as to where the "safe harbors" were during the Great Depression. My impression (and the responses did nothing to contradict this) were that there were no safe harbors—as perhaps there may not be any in some dystopian future we may or may not be headed for.
"Hold, don't sell during the panic," is all anyone could offer. (And so too holding those silver coins until now might also have been a valuable lesson for my daughters?)
> where the "safe harbors" were during the Great Depression [...] were that there were no safe harbors
Surely economy and the world economy operates in a completely different way now than it did back them, if not in the US, the very least in the rest of the world? But that's just my intuition, maybe things are more similar than they are different in reality?
> Of course it turned out to be a local maxima
Not to pour salt into your wounds (sorry), suppose your daughters were born 1980-1990 sometime, you really managed to hit exactly the stagnation phase it seems, that sucks but probably true what you say, still had a lesson in there :) I got curious and maybe others are too, especially if you don't usually look at price of commodities so here: https://www.macrotrends.net/1470/historical-silver-prices-10...
At least during the Great Depression you had independent markets like the USSR. Good luck investing, though. :-) The point about the higher independence of markets still stands. Great Depression was named as such by Americans (just like World Series, etc), but wasn't as global as the name implies.
Nowadays the world's economy operates in even more globalized way and when the biggest players get hit, everyone suffers (1998, dotcom, 2008, covid). That's why the tariff war was such a counter-productive idea; even if you theoretically end up on top, everyone will still lose, including you.
Ha ha, yeah, must have been 2011 when we bought into silver.
:| I was thinking "Yeah, 1980 probably, then they'd be 20 now, it'd match with the college stuff" and then I thought you were joking with 2011 but yeah, terrible for the same reason :/
What other hedges are there? Gold and silver I am guessing. Anything else to avoid dependency on the US stock market and exposure to the US Dollar? It feels like these assets have nowhere to go but down.
I am genuinely worried that my life savings will be destroyed by high inflation and the decreasing value of the dollar. This is the 3rd major market "correction" in my career and it looks like it will be the worst. Trump is doing so much economic damage to America... the outcomes are unthinkable for working people. I have trouble imagining what life will be like on the other side of this period of financial chaos.
The reality I have come to believe: if it goes down, we all go down. I get worrying about how to protect your life savings, I was worrying too. Now I just accept that we'll all be in the bread lines. Not that there's any comfort in that really, but that it might simply be an inevitability.
Flagged?
And un-vouchable? Slightly "panicky" title and I'd understand US investors might not want to stoke that particular fire.
I think you can only vouch for dead posts???
And yet flagging is enough to remove it from the front page, weird.
First time here, huh?
(Intended to the parent comment.)
Carney's speech at Davos is extremely telling: https://www.youtube.com/live/dE981Z_TaVo?si=Ct_1GIQe4Orm0wGU
who would have thought that America's closest geographic and cultural ally would feel the need to ditch that relationship. Wild times.
I’m not sure it’s accurate to say Canada ditched the relationship, given that the US imposed massive tariffs and threatened to invade Canada.
fair point, forced to break off ties
If you really dive into Canada's behavior since the Bush administration it's plainly obvious that they have not been a good ally. They have the hubris of the United States with the economy of Mexico. I don't agree with Trump's rhetoric and think his handling of the situation has been antagonistic and counter-productive. But his grievances are legitimate. Canada has been actively undermining the United State's attempts to contain/separate from China. They are using the opportunity to enhance their own economy at the expense of the American people. The historic nature of the relationship between Canada and America has allowed for much of it to stay under the radar. I don't think Canada would be in my top-10 allies list though. I would be much more concerned about losing Japan, South Korea, Mexico or Israel. Canada is what I would have described in high school as a "fake friend".
This comment is 10 sentences long but lists not a single, specific example of Canada being a poor ally.
The only example I can think of is Canada arresting Meng Wanzhou when the US asked, and not backing down in the face of significant Chinese threats, souring Chinese relationships significantly.
But that's an example of Canada being a good ally to the US.
1) Multi-year delay in banning Huawei from 5G networks: https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-statement-huawei-ban-canadian-5g...
Took Canada 4-years longer than the rest of the Five Eyes alliance to ban them, prompting the Biden administration to threaten to terminate the agreement.
2) NORAD/Ballistic missile defense (Not just NATO): https://canadiandefencereview.com/norad-modernization-closin...
Canada chooses not to participate in the defense of North America from potential threats, deferring the cost and military response entirely to the United States.
3) Canadian Digital Services tax: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/ties-and-knots-bind-uni...
4) Lax enforcement of cartel money laundering: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/trump-and-fentany...
The roughly 100 organized crime groups operating in Canada (including three groups dedicated to supplying fentanyl) are partly drawn to loopholes and lax penalties that allow fentanyl-related money-laundering operations to flourish.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-money-laundering-pro...
5) Weak enforcement against counterfeit goods: https://macleans.ca/economy/why-canada-is-a-haven-for-knock-...
Canada remains the only G7 country on the 2025 USTR Watch List. The 2025 USTR Special 301 Report again expressed concerns with Canada's perceived lack of IP enforcement, particularly at the border and against online piracy.
6) Canada undercutting American efforts to de-risk from China: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/glob...
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/as-t...
I tried to avoid some of the more common ones, like NATO spending, trade dispute, etc. A lot of this stuff, like providing for the common defense, don't make it easy for cartels launder money, don't look the other way on counterfeit goods, aren't unreasonable demands.
1) The delay came at a tricky time. Canada had arrested Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou on behalf of the USA, and China disappeared two Canadian citizens in retaliation.
4 & 5) Canada has a gun problem, and the guns originate from the USA. Canada has a problem with sick Americans crossing the border and buying meds meant for Canadians. American cross-border concerns about Canada don't hold a candle to that.
6) This is a strange expectation. If it had merit, then the reverse would, too: America is guilty of undercutting Canada's efforts to maintain global free trade.
So that leaves NORAD and the Digital Services tax.
To my mind, it seems like Canada primarily is guilty of being a nation with a few priorities and interests of its own, rather than a state.
Your argument stems from the idea that Canada is not its own country, and that Canadians cannot have their own interests or opinions on how things should be handled.
How dare they not follow the rules and behave like the other 50 states!
This is exactly what Trump's attitude is, and it's why Canadians are angry.
If we look at history, it's no surprise that the US's alliances are fleeing and temporary.
The US doesn't really have any real allies, as any ally could be betrayed for any reason at any time.
Just look at all the betrayals that Trump was personally responsible for, such as Afghanistan, NATO, Canada, Ukraine, the Kurds, and Syria. Poor Kurds have to watch as Trump shakes hands with the leader of Al-Qaeda, who is currently carrying out ethnic cleansing and massacring people.
Alliances should be mutual. What has the US done for Canada lately, especially considering the outrageous demands? Like what has the US done that benefitted Canada, but also cost the US at least in some way (so no BS about "US is growing and Canada is having some of the pie")? In what way has the US suffered and didn't grab as much as it was able to, just so Canada-the-ally would also be taken care of? When has the Trump's US acted like a real ally/friend instead of a volatile backstabbing bandit with the "winner takes it all and I don't care what happens after" attitude?
I claim that Canada has been much more of an ally to the US than vice versa.
This is your evidence? This is meaningless. The problem is, you’re applying reasoning backwards. You’re starting with the assumption that Trump’s ramblings are justified, so you search for whatever you can find that supports his side, and thus conclude that this evidence is sufficient to justify his claims, because it’s all the evidence out there. Instead of actual reasoning, which would be to start with the question “are his claims justified?”, searching for evidence for and against, and realizing that these few articles in support are dwarfed by the hundreds of billion dollars in trade between the two countries.
What a load of BS, Canada is the best friend the US could ask for.
Remember in 2018 when Canada held Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou under a U.S. extradition request? It tanked Canada/China relations and had trade ramifications Canada is still feeling today.
It's quite odd, the past days there's been this messaging from different users about how old allies haven't been good allies. First I saw this point about Denmark, now Canada.
Hard to understand where this is coming from, it's really odd to see it popping up out of nowhere when barely a year ago this would never have been brought up about any of these countries... Where is the messaging coming from?
That’s fair enough. Part of it is the Trump effect. I tend to dive pretty deep into things when they catch my interest. A lot of time we write things off as crazy simply because we don’t understand the context behind the presumption of insanity. So I try to look under the surface so to speak. I want to know why someone feels the way they do, even if their thesis is a little confused. Almost like: “I see you are very passionate about this, let me figure out why.”
I try to make the world make sense. Communication is a skill and many otherwise smart people simply fail to invest in it. Curiousity I suppose.
There are two things Canada is guilty of. 1) it spent far too little on its military 2) it trusted the Americans far too much by tying its economy so deeply with the USA.
If you subtract the oil purchased by the USA, Canada has a trade surplus with the USA. A trade surplus that's mostly comprised of finished goods. Canada sells raw materials to the USA and buys finished goods from them.
It is the United States that is the fake friend.
The lack of public awareness is honestly the biggest issue. I’ve got nothing personally against Canada or the Canadian people. And I certainly don’t think Trump’s approach has benefitted the situation. But I also recognize that his grievance have a level of merit. I can critique a government without blaming a people, right? I disagree with how the Canadian government has been handling itself. I think there is a way to resolve these issues, but I think first Canada has to at least acknowledge they exist. Whenever there is discussion like this people love to flood in, eager to defend our neighbor to the north and stick it to Trump. These issues have persisted through many administrations. You ask why Congress doesn’t stop Trump from his actions? It’s because the political consensus in Washington is that they are needed. I have no doubt whoever comes next will blame Trump and declare a new era of friendship and peace. But these issues will be at the core of any new agreement between the countries. People disagree, countries argue. It’s temporary. America wants Canada to succeed and Canada benefits from America’s success. They are just renorming the relationship a bit, which team dynamics tells us takes us back to the storming phase. Give it time and we’ll be rolling along again.
> I think there is a way to resolve these issues, but I think first Canada has to at least acknowledge they exist.
One can't and shouldn't acknowledge the things that don't exist.
Like:
- Venezuela's drugs being a big problem in the USA
- Russia/China trying to take Greenland
- Norwegian government responsible for giving Peace Nobels
- Canada's efforts to poison USA with fentanyl
They are all fake news and anyone spewing that should ridiculed, not engaged and reasoned with to find the compromise. (Example: since we are talking here and I share my eternal wisdom with you, it is only fair that you should give me all of your weath. Oh, you don't think it is reasonable and don't want to give a random guy anything? Fine, it is a fair compromise then in which you give me half of everything. The Greatest Deal!)
I don't think threats of annexation is something people just shrug off in a short amount of time.
The US has been burning bridges that may take a long time to rebuild, if ever.
"Countries argue", yes. But countries are made of people, and governments tend to be a product of that.
Being a good ally isn't just doing entirely what the US says the should do. The US needs to coordinate responses to China and work with allies to come to a shared understanding. How the current administration operates is assuming these allied country are fiefdoms. The economic situation in Canada isn't great, and the US could make it stronger, but refuses to.
The same feedback is largely true for most US allies. If you want people to decouple from China, you need to offset and fix the underlying reason they are trading with them.
I have many complaints about Trump's handling of foreign policy. Don't mistake my tone for approval of his approach. He is needlessly aggressive and domineering. We have tried the carrot approach though. Coalition of the willing. By and large I would say our allies are spiritually willing but physically unable to. If we use Canada for example, I don't think they need to jump at every demand, but things like stopping counterfeit sales (Pacific Mall), taking meaningful steps to stop cartel money laundering (Vancouver), actually meeting military commitments (Ukraine promises). A lot of it doesn't get reported because people don't really want to hear it. Like I said, Trump is not right in his handling of these issues, but Canada allows them to fester because its in their interest.
That's pretty vague compared to concrete good ally behaviour like the arrest of Meng Wanzhou.
And then waiting 4 years to actually ban his company from operating in Canada.
China captured 2 Canadians as retaliation. Wanting to de-escalate and get them back seems pretty reasonable. Unless the US proposed a military operation to get them back?
You have a laundry list of complaints about Canada's action wrt the US. What would someone like you on Canada's side of the border offer in response, do you think?
All of these issues go back long before Trump, who has made things uniquely worse. But any two countries with as long (and tightly bound) a history as ours are going to have constant points of friction. Are you suggesting Canada is uniquely a "fake friend" in this equation?
> They are using the opportunity to enhance their own economy at the expense of the American people.
I mean, isn't that what the country is for? If the country did actions not for it's own citizens and residents, what kind of country are you?
That comment and your reply are both zero-sum thinking.
Canada and the USA are both better off with a good trading relationship. Harder to see if you're looking for bad faith trading.
Who is the person who is doing the introduction, and why is he rubbing his hands/fingers together like a stereotypical comic book villain?
Related:
De-dollarization: Is the US dollar losing its dominance?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46693346
This reminds me of the articles about Canadian "snowbirds" selling their stateside pied-à-terre (due to tariffs and deteriorating cross-border relations), presenting it as if it were a bad thing for the average American that foreign ownership of housing was declining, and that the sellers were eager to quickly offload their asset--an asset long overvalued, in short supply, and increasingly out of reach of the average American.
Good? The sooner we see consequences for this ridiculous behavior the better.
Can't wait to hear how this is Biden's fault in a semi-coherent rant from the WH...
Why do you think there would be any traces of consistency?
Now on Truth Social, Trump is saying that NATO is the enemy, not Russia, not China.
Well, now it makes sense why Putin has that picture of Trump.
Verbatim quotes, ~2 hours ago:
> No single person, or President, has done more for NATO than President Donald J. Trump. If I didn’t come along, there would be no NATO right now!!! It would have been in the ash heap of History. Sad, but TRUE!!! President DJT
> The whole problem we are having with criminals in our Country was caused by Sleepy Joe Biden and the Radical Left Thugs that surrounded the Resolution Desk in the Oval Office - And, of course, the Illegal Use of the Auto Pen!!! They should be in jail!
I understand how there would be one or two people who'd hear that and go "Fuck yeah wooo". It's worrisome to me that a group of people could read/see/listen to that and think that sounds good. It's shocking to me that 77.3 million people could read that and think it's sane, good and is how a president should sound like.
This, and other recents diatribes, project overwhelming "Pop-pop's off his meds" vibes.
At what point, and how, does the US system pants up and bell the cat?
A bipartisan pysch assessment from 11 respected people across the political spectrum blind voting an opinion would likely be unanimous in diagnosis at this point.
Next up will be that the dollar collapse and global economic meltdown are a "conjob" and "conspiracy of the radical left" — pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, aren't the emperor's clothes simply gorgeous?
The good thing is that these statements should absolutely be read in the inverse by the other natios.
US is declaring itself their enemy. Other NATO countries should treat it accordingly.
We've always been at war with NATO. It's the "Eur" part of "eurasia", after all.
tRump is a bully. Bullies don't pick on those who are strong enough to fight back. That's why he doesn't say anything about Russia or China. If Russia was in the position it was in the early to mid nineties tRump would very much be bashing Russia.
The Europeans and Canada should take note.
flagged lol
We spent the 4-years under Biden capturing foreign investment via high interest rates. Now we are trapping them here via poor conversion rates. In a geopolitical, macro-economic sense we are "Elon Musking". Overpromise and under deliver. Take their money by selling them on a dream and then string them along with promises of future results. We have their money and they have "Fully Self Driving" lane-merge warnings.
It is really disturbing to see that most Republican legislators are still not speaking up openly against the Trump administration. That makes them complicit in everything that’s going on - the arrest of US citizens in unconstitutional raids, the illegal tariffs that are taxing all of us, the threats of invasions against other countries, the grift that is adding billions to the Trump family’s wealth, the push to denaturalize legal immigrants, the lack of action on climate change, the dangerous changes to vaccine schedules for children - all of that and more.
Almost all of these, would on their own, have been grounds for impeachment in the past. It shows how far this extremism has come. If Trump is not impeached, which will require a simple majority in the house and 2/3rds in the Senate, I fear he will continue his mental spiral and potentially do something far more deadly like using a nuke. And I am not being hyperbolic; I genuinely fear the next few escalations in his behavior could be far far worse.
Even with all this Trump as 39% approval rating. This is why Republican legislators are staying quiet.
Yep, he's still slightly more popular than he was at this point during his first term.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/trump-approval-ratings-nate-sil...
That’s shocking. I looked up a few different polls and it looks like the approval ratings have not really changed in months. How is that possible? The events of the last month or two should affect these in one direction or the other, right? I wonder if there is some polling error like maybe in how these questions are phrased or how the people responding are interpreting it?
Yeah.. that's how tribalism works. Dems don't really understand the kind of blank-check popular backing that Trump has.
Studies have shown for a long time the human brain is frequently wired to prioritize group loyalty over factual accuracy. Probably something left over from when we were living in caves in small groups. Trump understands it extremely well. He just has to bring up immigrants and their brain reasoning centers turn off and they start frothing over Haitians eating dogs. Prior to Trump, most white Americans only encountered this if they brought a black girlfriend home.
After Obama, Trump literally rewrote the republican party. Congressmen who weren't falling in line got fired or forced to retire. Many many times, eg see Liz Cheney. The last time a purge like this happened was at the time of the Civil War. Even super-popular FDR tried taking out conservative democrats but wasn't successful (which btw is one of the main reasons we didn't get stuff like universal healthcare in the 1930s; southern democrats decided it was a threat to segregation).
That probably shows us how to stop it: wait for a massive failure like WW2 or the Great Depression, then implement strong safety nets, media, education, etc pretty much everything Western Europe is doing & more (eg housing).
Another solution is for Democrats can move a bit towards the center. Maybe relent on immigration, for example. Obama was more centrist than Biden on this issue. He deported millions of illegal immigrants, while Biden housed them in New York hotels.
It's not gonna work. Dems have been meeting Republicans in the "center" for a long time. Republicans just go further right. You think conservatives like Obama?
It's not a rational thing. Like you said "Biden housing immigrants in hotels" and the implication is that he personally spent trillions on it and the sky is falling.
You need to train people to switch their brains back on, because it's a national security issue. All kinds of policies from free college to a shorter work-week so they have less stress and more time to think. Again, just copy what Western Europe does. They went through it before.
I think this is the bare minimum needed to change the current environment, if approval polls are staying where they are. If Dems support secure borders, protecting women’s sports, and sentencing repeat offenders, they would take away many of the “common sense” things that the GOP can use to hold onto independents. Otherwise, it lets people be outraged at the Dems enough that they would tolerate the extremism we see normalized now.
> It is really disturbing to see that most Republican legislators are still not speaking up openly against the Trump administration.
Take a look at the voter base: There’s a hubris of invincibility and jingoism in the air. Even among typical moderates. Rome can never fall!