I transfer books by running `python -m http.server` on my phone or computer, then opening my Kindle’s browser to my IP and downloading my .mobi book. It doesn’t take long, and I can do it all over Wi-Fi.
I can mount it via SSHFS for anything more than copying a single book.
I stopped buying anything from Amazon on principal a couple years ago, books included; and anyway, most books I read these days are in the public domain – Project Gutenberg is a treasure trove!
I sync articles and books to my phone via adb. There is this adbsync python script that syncs files in rsync fashion using adb. Hopefully google won't kill or add barriers to adb like they are doing with installing apks now.
It seems absurd to me that Amazon is making the product decision to EOL functional hardware that is _actively used to purchase books from them, legally_... all to... what? potentially sell another $100 or so reader? At the expense of... what? Some minimal amount of engineering effort to keep updates flowing for the extremely limited surface area that is the old Kindle OS?
Why upset your customers over this when they were otherwise using this device to give you money?
The actual reason is likely that all of these Kindles only support azw3 format ebooks, which are easy to strip the DRM from. This lets Amazon switch to only serving ebooks in kfx format, which are encrypted and harder to strip the DRM from. Amazon stopped allowing saving ebooks to your PC last year, likely for the same reason.
It definitely is frustrating though. I have an iPod from 2009 where the battery and hard drive still work fine, and I'm able to use the latest version of iTunes to sync my music and podcasts to it. Shoutout to Apple for that.
It's more complicated than that. KFX was not encrypted differently than AZW, it's just a proprietary format that no one else supports (AZW being more or less MOBI with some tweaks). The DRM and the format get conflated because the same enthusiasts who want to strip DRM tend to want ebooks in an archivable, portable, standard format that was not achievable with KFX (no other ebook readers care to implement the kind of features it supports, and the way it works is antithetical to coverting it to the more conventional formats). You could still download and strip DRM in versions of Kindle for PC that pulled the KFX format. Only recently did it get to the point that versions of the app supported by the DeDRM plugins weren't allowed to download new books.
They probably could do it in an update, but the devices where support has been dropped haven't had firmware updates in 7 years (and that was a certificate update, the last nontrivial update was over 10 years ago), so I guess they don't consider restarting firmware development to be worth it.
It is not like stripping DRM from Kindle books was the only available avenue that could halt the pirate ebook system. Moving the entire ecosystem to the format is still going to see all of the same material available on the high seas.
Worst case, the eye analog hole will ensure that books are the most piratable medium.
there is something bitterly ironic about iPods (and their "sync" system to basically disallow arbitrary loading and sharing of music and "just" dropping music onto it) being now considered an example of an open device.
Bought a Kobo and decided I'm just going to stick to Ebooks.com DRM-free section from now on. Tired of not owning what I buy.
I did the same with music, using an Innioasis iPod knockoff + buy MP3s from Amazon Music, cheaper than Spotify and I never have to worry about my music becoming unavailable. I also prefer the experience of single-use devices.
You're an ant to them. All that data they have tells them this action won't hurt them.
An incredibly important turning point of this era is that businesses have learned that they no longer need to fear acting hostile to consumers. Consumers don't practice agency.
2. Customers prioritize convenience and (perceived at least) low-prices over being treated well.
Look at airlines: Unless you happen to be traveling between two major airports, there will typically be at most 2 airlines with a reasonable schedule for the two endpoints, and most people will not pay $100 more for being treated like human beings over cattle.
I got extremely lucky. I bought a Kindle recently and decided to get one by BestBuy, just trying my luck to see if they had old stock. The firmware was 5.18.0.2 and I was able to jailbreak it.
If anyone is looking for a Kindle, try non-Amazon stores. Might have older stock with older and jailbreak-able firmware.
I just jailbroke my old Kindle 4 for fun. Found out of it ever connects to WiFi it unjailbrakes itself. :)
The email Amazon sent out said that if you factory reset your device after May 20 it becomes inoperable. I wonder if that means bricked, or if it just means you can't access your DRM kindle library.
You will still be able to use it if you factory reset, but you won't be able to register it to an Amazon account or download any of your DRM'd book purchases. The Kindle will still work and you'll still be able to read books you load over USB. The one annoyance is there's a nag pop-up telling you to register your Kindle, but it only shows up in the main menu and not when you're in a book.
They said that it affected less than 3% of Kindle e-readers and Kindle Fire tablets. I wonder how that number would change if they only considered Kindle e-readers? I suspect that the disposability of tablets distorts that number significantly.
> If you own one of the affected Kindles, you’ll still be able to access all of the books that are already downloaded to your device. However, you’ll no longer be able to purchase, borrow, or download books to your device from the Kindle Store.
> And while you can sideload DRM-free (digital rights management–free) titles to the Kindle via USB [...], it’s not the best option from a security standpoint.
> “Kindle devices have a relatively small attack surface, and successful exploitation through ebook files is rare, though not impossible,” said Bogdan Botezatu, a senior director of threat research and reporting for cybersecurity software company Bitdefender.
I have a Kindle with KOReader on it and it’s awesome. I recently bought a book directly from the author (Isles of the Emberdark, Brandon Sanderson) and the author, being excellent, provided it without DRM so I had no trouble reading it.
But for less-excellent authors, where’s a good place besides Amazon to get ebooks?
The high seas (https://open-slum.org/) ... and as a compensation donate to the author somehow or make a donation to your local library for a clear conscience.
I’m thinking to get a device for reading technical books. Do you think an iPad mini would be the better option? I had a kindle before but it was slow to change pages and I heard even new versions are still not great for PDFs, but would like to get some opinions.
I have a friend at Apple so wouldn’t pay the full price for an iPad.
If you want an e-ink type screen, the Supernotes (or Remarkables, or Viwoods) are all very good at this. Personally I hate trying to read things on iPads.
I'd go with an iPad instead of the mini just to be on the safe side. I have a 12" tablet and it's night and day compared to my 6" Kindle (2020 model). Kindles suck if you try to read pdfs, they don't scale naturally so you can't see shit. Anything with a screen at 10" or more would work fine for pdfs.
Probably just the iPad, unless you are not at all price sensitive. $350 ($299 refurbished) vs $600 is a big uplift; you can almost buy two iPads for the price of an iPad Air. For just PDF viewing, any Apple CPU is performant enough.
I saw this coming when they stopped allowing downloads of purchased books. When that happened my Kindle got KOreader and after it broke I replaced it with a Kobo.
> The company is offering a 20% discount that you can apply toward one of its new Kindle models,
Federal is complicated right now, but can state AGs step in, and make Amazon either continue to support the old devices, or provide comparable free replacement devices?
Can they, yes. Just about anyone can be used for just about anything.
Should they, no. Why should Amazon continuously support, checks notes... 14 year old devices??? Likely the number of customers using a device like that anymore is super small.
The network service side of the product should continue to work because the company sold that.
Unless you can find where the original advertisements (not microscopic fine print) said that the company would disable the network service side after a period of time, such that the buyers knew that's what they were buying, then the company is obligated to continue operating the service they sold. Or negotiate some alternative satisfactory to the buyer.
how well does the battery hold up after that long?
Mine is only like 2-3 years old and I charge it so rarely. I can read several entire books on a charge easily. It lasts months. I imagine even if the battery degraded significantly it would be quite usable.
I replaced the battery in mine. Unlike big tech, I believe in repairing old devices.
Something Amazon have not considered is how many of these old devices are used as companion devices for other high end kindle owners. I have a scribe and old paperwhite and use them interchangably, with cloud sync of reading position etc, which won't be possible after 20 may.
My paper white is about 7/8 years old, and is still holding up fine though the battery is noticeably degraded - charging it approximately once a week now.
I was also having a play with a demo model of the latest one in a store and the page turn speed is much much better, which is tempting me to upgrade though I'd prefer to run the current one into the ground first.
> Earlier this week, Amazon notified its customers via email that, starting May 20, it will end support for Kindle and Kindle Fire devices released in 2012 or earlier.
I bought a used kindle paper white in 2015 for I think $70. It’s been through 75 countries on 5 continents. I must have read 500 books on it. Plenty of nights at -40C, years at +40C.
Battery still lasts 5 books.
Never turned on wifi, works great with calibre.
why it wouldnt work? unless there is some hardcoded switch I doubt my offline Kindle where I copy offline books over USB will suddenly stop working, it's more likely work exactly same as it did in the past 10-15 years using it this way
Best thing I ever did with my Kindle was jailbreak it and install KOReader. Crazy that somebody needs to do that in order to truly own their device.
I transfer books by running `python -m http.server` on my phone or computer, then opening my Kindle’s browser to my IP and downloading my .mobi book. It doesn’t take long, and I can do it all over Wi-Fi.
I can mount it via SSHFS for anything more than copying a single book.
I stopped buying anything from Amazon on principal a couple years ago, books included; and anyway, most books I read these days are in the public domain – Project Gutenberg is a treasure trove!
I sync articles and books to my phone via adb. There is this adbsync python script that syncs files in rsync fashion using adb. Hopefully google won't kill or add barriers to adb like they are doing with installing apks now.
Why just don’t send books on the email associated with your kindle?
It seems absurd to me that Amazon is making the product decision to EOL functional hardware that is _actively used to purchase books from them, legally_... all to... what? potentially sell another $100 or so reader? At the expense of... what? Some minimal amount of engineering effort to keep updates flowing for the extremely limited surface area that is the old Kindle OS?
Why upset your customers over this when they were otherwise using this device to give you money?
The actual reason is likely that all of these Kindles only support azw3 format ebooks, which are easy to strip the DRM from. This lets Amazon switch to only serving ebooks in kfx format, which are encrypted and harder to strip the DRM from. Amazon stopped allowing saving ebooks to your PC last year, likely for the same reason.
It definitely is frustrating though. I have an iPod from 2009 where the battery and hard drive still work fine, and I'm able to use the latest version of iTunes to sync my music and podcasts to it. Shoutout to Apple for that.
It's more complicated than that. KFX was not encrypted differently than AZW, it's just a proprietary format that no one else supports (AZW being more or less MOBI with some tweaks). The DRM and the format get conflated because the same enthusiasts who want to strip DRM tend to want ebooks in an archivable, portable, standard format that was not achievable with KFX (no other ebook readers care to implement the kind of features it supports, and the way it works is antithetical to coverting it to the more conventional formats). You could still download and strip DRM in versions of Kindle for PC that pulled the KFX format. Only recently did it get to the point that versions of the app supported by the DeDRM plugins weren't allowed to download new books.
It seems weird that they couldn't simply ship a software update to support kfx. Is kfx decoded in hardware?
They probably could do it in an update, but the devices where support has been dropped haven't had firmware updates in 7 years (and that was a certificate update, the last nontrivial update was over 10 years ago), so I guess they don't consider restarting firmware development to be worth it.
Amazon can and already did this for my circa 2015 Kindle. I think it's just a lack of will to do so for devices even older than that.
It is not like stripping DRM from Kindle books was the only available avenue that could halt the pirate ebook system. Moving the entire ecosystem to the format is still going to see all of the same material available on the high seas.
Worst case, the eye analog hole will ensure that books are the most piratable medium.
there is something bitterly ironic about iPods (and their "sync" system to basically disallow arbitrary loading and sharing of music and "just" dropping music onto it) being now considered an example of an open device.
Bought a Kobo and decided I'm just going to stick to Ebooks.com DRM-free section from now on. Tired of not owning what I buy.
I did the same with music, using an Innioasis iPod knockoff + buy MP3s from Amazon Music, cheaper than Spotify and I never have to worry about my music becoming unavailable. I also prefer the experience of single-use devices.
You're an ant to them. All that data they have tells them this action won't hurt them.
An incredibly important turning point of this era is that businesses have learned that they no longer need to fear acting hostile to consumers. Consumers don't practice agency.
There's a lot of moving parts here:
1. Competition is much lower in a lot of places.
2. Customers prioritize convenience and (perceived at least) low-prices over being treated well.
Look at airlines: Unless you happen to be traveling between two major airports, there will typically be at most 2 airlines with a reasonable schedule for the two endpoints, and most people will not pay $100 more for being treated like human beings over cattle.
> Consumers don't practice agency
Customers can't practice agency when the markets are mostly monopolized or the products pass through a cartel first.
The moment a viable, cheaper and more convenient option appears, your customers will show you exactly how fickle they are.
I got extremely lucky. I bought a Kindle recently and decided to get one by BestBuy, just trying my luck to see if they had old stock. The firmware was 5.18.0.2 and I was able to jailbreak it.
If anyone is looking for a Kindle, try non-Amazon stores. Might have older stock with older and jailbreak-able firmware.
As much as I am a fan of annas-archive, Zlibrary Koreader Plugin[1] makes a bargain I can't refuse.
[1] https://github.com/ZlibraryKO/zlibrary.koplugin
Just use Calibre to transfer books to the reader
I just jailbroke my old Kindle 4 for fun. Found out of it ever connects to WiFi it unjailbrakes itself. :)
The email Amazon sent out said that if you factory reset your device after May 20 it becomes inoperable. I wonder if that means bricked, or if it just means you can't access your DRM kindle library.
You will still be able to use it if you factory reset, but you won't be able to register it to an Amazon account or download any of your DRM'd book purchases. The Kindle will still work and you'll still be able to read books you load over USB. The one annoyance is there's a nag pop-up telling you to register your Kindle, but it only shows up in the main menu and not when you're in a book.
I think you can disable the Over the Air Updates.
They said that it affected less than 3% of Kindle e-readers and Kindle Fire tablets. I wonder how that number would change if they only considered Kindle e-readers? I suspect that the disposability of tablets distorts that number significantly.
> If you own one of the affected Kindles, you’ll still be able to access all of the books that are already downloaded to your device. However, you’ll no longer be able to purchase, borrow, or download books to your device from the Kindle Store.
> And while you can sideload DRM-free (digital rights management–free) titles to the Kindle via USB [...], it’s not the best option from a security standpoint.
What a terrible article.
This quote near the end of the article:
> “Kindle devices have a relatively small attack surface, and successful exploitation through ebook files is rare, though not impossible,” said Bogdan Botezatu, a senior director of threat research and reporting for cybersecurity software company Bitdefender.
Should sell more new Kindles.
I have a Kindle with KOReader on it and it’s awesome. I recently bought a book directly from the author (Isles of the Emberdark, Brandon Sanderson) and the author, being excellent, provided it without DRM so I had no trouble reading it.
But for less-excellent authors, where’s a good place besides Amazon to get ebooks?
The high seas (https://open-slum.org/) ... and as a compensation donate to the author somehow or make a donation to your local library for a clear conscience.
I’m thinking to get a device for reading technical books. Do you think an iPad mini would be the better option? I had a kindle before but it was slow to change pages and I heard even new versions are still not great for PDFs, but would like to get some opinions.
I have a friend at Apple so wouldn’t pay the full price for an iPad.
If you want an e-ink type screen, the Supernotes (or Remarkables, or Viwoods) are all very good at this. Personally I hate trying to read things on iPads.
I'd go with an iPad instead of the mini just to be on the safe side. I have a 12" tablet and it's night and day compared to my 6" Kindle (2020 model). Kindles suck if you try to read pdfs, they don't scale naturally so you can't see shit. Anything with a screen at 10" or more would work fine for pdfs.
Even 10" feels far too large to casually read in bed with.
I doubt anyone reads technical books at bed though.
I read pdfs in bed all the time, but it's not much hassle to zoom and pan on a tablet
i guess that would be an iPaid air as it just got refreshed?
Probably just the iPad, unless you are not at all price sensitive. $350 ($299 refurbished) vs $600 is a big uplift; you can almost buy two iPads for the price of an iPad Air. For just PDF viewing, any Apple CPU is performant enough.
I saw this coming when they stopped allowing downloads of purchased books. When that happened my Kindle got KOreader and after it broke I replaced it with a Kobo.
I’m much happier with my new device
> The company is offering a 20% discount that you can apply toward one of its new Kindle models,
Federal is complicated right now, but can state AGs step in, and make Amazon either continue to support the old devices, or provide comparable free replacement devices?
Can they, yes. Just about anyone can be used for just about anything.
Should they, no. Why should Amazon continuously support, checks notes... 14 year old devices??? Likely the number of customers using a device like that anymore is super small.
The network service side of the product should continue to work because the company sold that.
Unless you can find where the original advertisements (not microscopic fine print) said that the company would disable the network service side after a period of time, such that the buyers knew that's what they were buying, then the company is obligated to continue operating the service they sold. Or negotiate some alternative satisfactory to the buyer.
Unlikely. Kindles are e readers that last a long time. I have a 10yr old paperwhite as good as new!
Your paperwhite will soon become paperweight.
Yes, if by soon you mean 5 more years. 15yrs is ok for any electronic device! I changed 6 phones in the last 15yrs
how well does the battery hold up after that long?
Mine is only like 2-3 years old and I charge it so rarely. I can read several entire books on a charge easily. It lasts months. I imagine even if the battery degraded significantly it would be quite usable.
I replaced the battery in mine. Unlike big tech, I believe in repairing old devices. Something Amazon have not considered is how many of these old devices are used as companion devices for other high end kindle owners. I have a scribe and old paperwhite and use them interchangably, with cloud sync of reading position etc, which won't be possible after 20 may.
My paper white is about 7/8 years old, and is still holding up fine though the battery is noticeably degraded - charging it approximately once a week now.
I was also having a play with a demo model of the latest one in a store and the page turn speed is much much better, which is tempting me to upgrade though I'd prefer to run the current one into the ground first.
I have to charge once a month or once 15 days I didn't keep track tbh. And I read like crazy. I finished 22 books on the kindle this year so far.
Its a Lithium battery so unless you let it drain to single digits every time, it'll last a LOONG time
> Earlier this week, Amazon notified its customers via email that, starting May 20, it will end support for Kindle and Kindle Fire devices released in 2012 or earlier.
14 years of support really isn't bad at all.
ya. compared to an iphone that normally gets 5-7 years.
I bought a used kindle paper white in 2015 for I think $70. It’s been through 75 countries on 5 continents. I must have read 500 books on it. Plenty of nights at -40C, years at +40C. Battery still lasts 5 books. Never turned on wifi, works great with calibre.
Best electronic purchase of my life.
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47678320
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47690049
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47747330
Unrelated to the article, but the sticky AI prompt at the top of this page is infuriating. I've added the element to my ublock filter.
why it wouldnt work? unless there is some hardcoded switch I doubt my offline Kindle where I copy offline books over USB will suddenly stop working, it's more likely work exactly same as it did in the past 10-15 years using it this way
you can still transfer over usb, which should be the bare minimum for eol hardware support... this isn't as bad as it seems on the surface
You can transfer over USB until you have to factory reset the device. At that point it won’t re-activate and you’ve got a nice brick
Can you transfer your new Kindle book purchases to it?
If they have DRM the answer is almost certainly no.