Found out about this today, up until now 802.11p hardware is very expensive, and so you cannot easily do anything with V2x messages like CAM or SPAT, but the fact this was done with sub £20 hardware is really interesting.
The site is definitely lacking. It's half in German, half in English.
The concept is that there is this protocol called ITS-G5, which is a European profile of 802.11p. Vehicles and traffic infrastructure can transmit telemetry on 5 GHz. Other vehicles and traffic infrastructure can use it for situational awareness.
This website collects that data using local receivers and aggregates it onto a map, similar to what website like ADSB-Exchange do with ADS-B.
What is concerning is that vehicles appear to broadcast a MAC address. Does this mean that ITS-G5, 802.11p, and C-ITS could be used for persistent tracking?
Will be interesting to see how it fares when it does come to the US. It seems like there are some cars that already have the tech installed. But the US is allegedly more interested in the cellular version, which I am guessing is not as easy to pick up with a simple receiver?
My gut feeling is that this seems like one of those things likely to face a lot of backlash when it becomes widely known.
I guess we only find out if some people order those chips and check if there is some data. From my understanding the idea is the same like maps showing air planes or ships (for ships it’s AIS). So without volunteers/pioneers who participate we won’t know. It seems like traffic lights and trams also can send data.
You still wouldn't have nearly as many dollars if you subtracted the times those people were correct in that assumption. Personally I assumed the site would be global. It doesn't have any info though, so I rely on finding out somewhere else I guess.
The only reason you would assume a site would be global is if your definition of "global" is "works in the US" & you never bother to check for support of other countries. I live in the anglosphere outside of the US & I encounter more than enough US-only web projects for that not be to a default assumption I hold.
Most sites are not global - it's very odd to assume they would be.
It seems pretty weird to use all English words in the domain for a service that offers no English translations and operates in no English speaking countries.
The map is based on international standards and technically it does not restrict locations to German speaking countries.
The authors of this project also shared that they intend on publishing more around this project. This seems to be mostly an early demo that was intended for the live event.
The Germans and Danes and Swedes and Norwegians I see on the Internet developing and publishing software often have a better grasp of the English language than many born in the USA Americans.
OpenStreetMaps works in the US and much of the rest of the world.
It's entirely reasonable to expect that a project with an extremely similar name would also work in most of the world, which just happens to include the USA.
The night bus service only runs the nights "before" Saturday and Sunday[1]. It's a small university city with 300k population (600k greater metropolitan area).
Found out about this today, up until now 802.11p hardware is very expensive, and so you cannot easily do anything with V2x messages like CAM or SPAT, but the fact this was done with sub £20 hardware is really interesting.
I haven't seen a theme on OSM data look this modern and fresh before. Beautiful color palette and iconography!
It looks like Mapbox Standard [1]. While a free tier is available, most sites are going to need a paid plan.
[1] https://docs.mapbox.com/map-styles/standard/guides/
Agreed - it is very similar to Google Maps.
It's a Mapbox theme
Cool, but it there's no links for more info, and it doesn't seem to work in the USA at all.
The site is definitely lacking. It's half in German, half in English.
The concept is that there is this protocol called ITS-G5, which is a European profile of 802.11p. Vehicles and traffic infrastructure can transmit telemetry on 5 GHz. Other vehicles and traffic infrastructure can use it for situational awareness.
This website collects that data using local receivers and aggregates it onto a map, similar to what website like ADSB-Exchange do with ADS-B.
What is concerning is that vehicles appear to broadcast a MAC address. Does this mean that ITS-G5, 802.11p, and C-ITS could be used for persistent tracking?
What about the traffic lights on the map do they also have transmitters?
Reading the translation of the talk, public transport vehicles have a persistent MAC but for private cars the MAC address changes every 15 minutes.
That still doesn't seem very private.
Particularly anywhere rural or off the beaten path
This should be a top level comment as it has a ton of useful info and can be voted to the top.
Did they re invent APRS?
The project was shared as part of a talk at Graz Linux Tage. You can find it here, unfortunately it is only available in German
https://media.ccc.de/v/glt26-688-c-its-mit-einem-esp32-ampel...
Is there a link to the hardware they mention in the description?
Pastebin here containing AI-generated English translation, LGTM: https://pastebin.com/fK5Atwzg
It's based on Car2X/Vehicle2X data that's sent unencrypted and can be received with chips you can order from China.
Will be interesting to see how it fares when it does come to the US. It seems like there are some cars that already have the tech installed. But the US is allegedly more interested in the cellular version, which I am guessing is not as easy to pick up with a simple receiver?
My gut feeling is that this seems like one of those things likely to face a lot of backlash when it becomes widely known.
I guess we only find out if some people order those chips and check if there is some data. From my understanding the idea is the same like maps showing air planes or ships (for ships it’s AIS). So without volunteers/pioneers who participate we won’t know. It seems like traffic lights and trams also can send data.
If I had a dollar for every time I've seen an American on the Internet assume that anything published in the English language must be US-centric...
You still wouldn't have nearly as many dollars if you subtracted the times those people were correct in that assumption. Personally I assumed the site would be global. It doesn't have any info though, so I rely on finding out somewhere else I guess.
> Personally I assumed the site would be global
The only reason you would assume a site would be global is if your definition of "global" is "works in the US" & you never bother to check for support of other countries. I live in the anglosphere outside of the US & I encounter more than enough US-only web projects for that not be to a default assumption I hold.
Most sites are not global - it's very odd to assume they would be.
Another reason could be that calling this OpenTrafficMap gives an impression that it is similar to OpenStreetMap, which is global.
It seems pretty weird to use all English words in the domain for a service that offers no English translations and operates in no English speaking countries.
The map is based on international standards and technically it does not restrict locations to German speaking countries.
The authors of this project also shared that they intend on publishing more around this project. This seems to be mostly an early demo that was intended for the live event.
The Germans and Danes and Swedes and Norwegians I see on the Internet developing and publishing software often have a better grasp of the English language than many born in the USA Americans.
That's true for Scandinavians, Germans are not as gut.
Is expecting something to work in the US the same as expecting it to be US-centric?
Conversely, if I had a penny for every time someone complained about Americans... ;-)
This is an American site to be fair. Mapbox is also an American company.
OpenStreetMaps works in the US and much of the rest of the world.
It's entirely reasonable to expect that a project with an extremely similar name would also work in most of the world, which just happens to include the USA.
It does have an English name, so why the surprise?
I mean I don’t anyone thought this was in the US since the UI is not in English. Maybe it’s more of, this neat, wish we had it here?
It will be nice if we everybody could just add own receivers, then it will be quickly cover more cities. But still nice project.
I wonder if this could be used to track location of the vehicle
Isn't that the point of the project? I'm seeing a bunch of tracked vehicles, although they all seem parked at the moment.
Does Graz not have night bus service?
The night bus service only runs the nights "before" Saturday and Sunday[1]. It's a small university city with 300k population (600k greater metropolitan area).
[1] https://www.verbundlinie.at/en/customer-service/arriving-in-...
>WebSocket getrennt
Hug of death? Nothing loads.