The highly random and somewhat convoluted mechanisms remind me of something like character creation in the rpg classic traveller.
You do have a little choice there (unlike here), but I think the same appeal is present even without the choice.
The experience is a bit like reading fortunes from tea leaves.
The fun comes from assigning meaning to the outcomes. This happens, generally, automatically as a human instinct. In traveller, the process of character creation generates a kind of narrative in your head of who the character is.
I've been thinking about these kind of experiences a lot lately.
Is it a game? I don't think a discussion of definitions is very interesting, but I would call it a game by any casual meaning of the word. Certainty, in traveller's case, a roleplaying game. But I recognize the same appeal in these zero-player games.
You're playing something, just in your own mind. The primary game isn't what's on the table, but what's in your mind. You're not committing to choices in physical (or digital) space, you have no agency there -- but there's still a rich experience happening between your ears -- full of hopes, predictions, disappointments, elation, creativity. It's like reading but you're also part author. You're not reading from a book, but from pattern matching inside randomness.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around it myself. I have little more than the recognition of something interesting in this direction, but beyond that I can't articulate it.
A bit Off topic. I am looking for a Board Game for my step dad. He is a retired 80+ years old rancher. He doesn't know any english at all, so he is very limited on choices. Something that can be played by himself or with other person.
The basic rules aren't hard to learn and official digital versions of the rulebook and addendums with some clarifications are available (at least) in English and German.
If none of the official releases are in your language of choice, translating them shouldn't take too long. During the campaign, should you decide to play it, you unlock some cards with text on them which explains the unlock conditions and the elements they add to the game. An example of those cards can be seen in the addendum on pages 2 and 5. There aren't too many of them, so it's quite feasible to translate them.
hard to give recommendations without more information. For example
1. what languages does he know? there are boardgames that are localized into other languages. Probably the easiest route tbh.
2. what kinds of games does he like? for example, many boardgames have very little english on the game pieces. think any game that uses a standard poker deck, e.g. solitaire, or many others. Mahjong is another example though, as is dominos).
There are some modern boardgames that might also be fine, namely ones that discourage communication in the first place. It's common in co-op boardgames. For example, the Lord of the Rings trick taking game is 1-4 players, and during gameplay there is no discussion allowed. Game pieces can be separated into two categories
1. scenario-specific ones, which have text on them/must be read to be understood/played. You could maybe translate them? or it may have been localized for a language he's literate in. I don't know.
2. secnario-independent ones, which are (functionally) poker cards.
For this game you only need to share language when understanding the scenario-specific cards, and when planning strategy before each scenario starts. I would be comfortable playing the game with someone I don't share a language with if
1. we both know the game (this would be the hard part), and
2. we have two copies of the game, so we each can read our scenario-specific cards in our own language, and
3. we struggled through with a translation app before each scenario starts, if we want to discuss strategy.
I'd recommend that you try and ask this in a more specialized forum (e.g. BGG [1]). Also, if solo playable board games is a must - this drastically reduces the amount of games.
This sounds similar (but not quite) to Ready Set Bet [1], which is probably a lot easier to find than this.
This game, as the title suggests, is pure luck, based on the cards you were dealt.
In RSB, it’s real-time, and as dice are rolled to move horses forward, you can place bets on a number of spots, based on how the dice are being rolled (always by a designated player that is either part of the betting or not — recommended that they don’t bet if you have enough players).
Obviously still a lot of luck, as with most dice rolling games. But a decent amount of strategy in timing your bets, especially since bets freeze once horses get to a certain line in the game.
Came to the comment(s) looking for this game. I've played this! Fun!
It's interesting to explore the spectrum of what people find fun. In large groups, it seems like games that tilt heavily towards luck can be a great deal of fun for everyone, while "board gamers" (like me) enjoy games where you can learn and leverage strategies to gain advantage, and the role of luck is diminished (to varying degrees).
As a board game host, you have to get that spectrum, gauge group size and preference, and pick a game that will work for them. Strategic games, in particular, take learning the rules, learning the strategies, practicing them, learning your opponents... it can take a dozen games before you're competitive. And for a lot of people, almost none of those games will be any fun.
A few games kind of nail this with an unexpectedly even playing field, where strategy helps, but luck offsets it. If luck really offsets it, very strategic players will also find that it's no fun.
Some luck-based games I really like include Lords of Vegas (not to mention... just Vegas), Bunny Kingdom, and Flip 7.
A lot of card-based strategy games like Terraforming Mars and Wingspan certainly have some amount of luck in them, but it can be dwarfed by good synergy / strategy.
I think for big groups it’s not so much luck/randomness that is the key but complexity. Low complexity games are going to play better. They can be pure skill games. Many drinking games are (beer pong etc).
Luck/randomness is directly against determinism. A way of making feel less mechanical and opening up the combinatorial state space? Essentially increasing the fun/interest without introducing high complexity necessarily? As well as narrow the skill range as you say, but not necessarily over longer time horizons.
Like you can do a 2d matrix of luck and complexity.
Being allowed to place bets makes it actually not a pure luck game. That game can be optimally solved given knowledge of the world because there are choices involved.
TFA's base game, however, is pure luck - you place no bets, you discard no cards, you make no decisions. Perhaps you influence things by how you roll, but probably not consciously. If the same die roll sequence and same card shuffle sequence is replayed, the game is the exact same.
Not to distract from what is undeniably a pretty cool thing, it's hard to even call these "games" as there's absolutely no decision making going on. I absolutely loathe games like these because you're not actually doing anything.
I love what they're calling here "zero-player" games. They're automatons that you can build other games on top of (often in combination with other automatons) or, like this, they are games where players can simply identify themselves with one of the game's components. The latter are excellent for groups of drunk people.
Spectator sports are basically zero-player games.
Another classic is "LCR" (Left Center Right), and one that was popular a few years back is "Yahtzee Turbo."
A great uncle of mine had made a similar but simpler game like this we used to play, decades & decades & decades ago. He didn't take credit for it, but he'd gotten it printed on a huge nice sheet of paper, and had horses that advanced down it. You just place bets and turn over cards for each horse, and the highest card horse advances. On rainy days we'd sit in the living room, my sibling & I, basically on top of the giant horse race game, making bets & turning over cards to see who the winner would be.
Our game was shorter, and only had uhh 6 tracks I think. The odds rose quite a lot for the un-favored horses, like, a lot a lot. The horses/tracks all had names, but I can't remember their names.
The highly random and somewhat convoluted mechanisms remind me of something like character creation in the rpg classic traveller.
You do have a little choice there (unlike here), but I think the same appeal is present even without the choice.
The experience is a bit like reading fortunes from tea leaves.
The fun comes from assigning meaning to the outcomes. This happens, generally, automatically as a human instinct. In traveller, the process of character creation generates a kind of narrative in your head of who the character is.
I've been thinking about these kind of experiences a lot lately.
Is it a game? I don't think a discussion of definitions is very interesting, but I would call it a game by any casual meaning of the word. Certainty, in traveller's case, a roleplaying game. But I recognize the same appeal in these zero-player games.
You're playing something, just in your own mind. The primary game isn't what's on the table, but what's in your mind. You're not committing to choices in physical (or digital) space, you have no agency there -- but there's still a rich experience happening between your ears -- full of hopes, predictions, disappointments, elation, creativity. It's like reading but you're also part author. You're not reading from a book, but from pattern matching inside randomness.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around it myself. I have little more than the recognition of something interesting in this direction, but beyond that I can't articulate it.
A bit Off topic. I am looking for a Board Game for my step dad. He is a retired 80+ years old rancher. He doesn't know any english at all, so he is very limited on choices. Something that can be played by himself or with other person.
Dorfromantik is a very nice game that can be played as a solo or co-op game. It was released in multiple languages: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/370591/dorfromantik-the-...
The basic rules aren't hard to learn and official digital versions of the rulebook and addendums with some clarifications are available (at least) in English and German.
If none of the official releases are in your language of choice, translating them shouldn't take too long. During the campaign, should you decide to play it, you unlock some cards with text on them which explains the unlock conditions and the elements they add to the game. An example of those cards can be seen in the addendum on pages 2 and 5. There aren't too many of them, so it's quite feasible to translate them.
For the English version, have a look here:
https://pegasusna.com/Dorfromantik-The-Boardgame/PNA51240.US...
Rule book: https://pegasusna.com/NetiMedia/download?mediaId=018e5c292cd...
Addendums: https://pegasusna.com/NetiMedia/download?mediaId=018e5c29466...
If you're not opposed to card games, Five Crowns [1] is a house staple in both sides of my family. It will require multiple people.
Sagrada [2] is a fun game as well. Can be played solo, but I find it more fun with others.
[1] https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1472/five-crowns [2] https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/199561/sagrada
SET - Great for a 80+ year old brain. If SET is too hard, there is a kids edition as well. https://playset.netlify.app/
hard to give recommendations without more information. For example
1. what languages does he know? there are boardgames that are localized into other languages. Probably the easiest route tbh.
2. what kinds of games does he like? for example, many boardgames have very little english on the game pieces. think any game that uses a standard poker deck, e.g. solitaire, or many others. Mahjong is another example though, as is dominos).
There are some modern boardgames that might also be fine, namely ones that discourage communication in the first place. It's common in co-op boardgames. For example, the Lord of the Rings trick taking game is 1-4 players, and during gameplay there is no discussion allowed. Game pieces can be separated into two categories
1. scenario-specific ones, which have text on them/must be read to be understood/played. You could maybe translate them? or it may have been localized for a language he's literate in. I don't know.
2. secnario-independent ones, which are (functionally) poker cards.
For this game you only need to share language when understanding the scenario-specific cards, and when planning strategy before each scenario starts. I would be comfortable playing the game with someone I don't share a language with if
1. we both know the game (this would be the hard part), and
2. we have two copies of the game, so we each can read our scenario-specific cards in our own language, and
3. we struggled through with a translation app before each scenario starts, if we want to discuss strategy.
I'd recommend that you try and ask this in a more specialized forum (e.g. BGG [1]). Also, if solo playable board games is a must - this drastically reduces the amount of games.
Maybe also consider card games (like Solitaire)?
[1] https://boardgamegeek.com/
Azul comes to mind.
Azul and Set are both good. Can’t Stop is another classic “push your luck” game.
This sounds similar (but not quite) to Ready Set Bet [1], which is probably a lot easier to find than this.
This game, as the title suggests, is pure luck, based on the cards you were dealt.
In RSB, it’s real-time, and as dice are rolled to move horses forward, you can place bets on a number of spots, based on how the dice are being rolled (always by a designated player that is either part of the betting or not — recommended that they don’t bet if you have enough players).
Obviously still a lot of luck, as with most dice rolling games. But a decent amount of strategy in timing your bets, especially since bets freeze once horses get to a certain line in the game.
[1] https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/351040/ready-set-bet
Came to the comment(s) looking for this game. I've played this! Fun!
It's interesting to explore the spectrum of what people find fun. In large groups, it seems like games that tilt heavily towards luck can be a great deal of fun for everyone, while "board gamers" (like me) enjoy games where you can learn and leverage strategies to gain advantage, and the role of luck is diminished (to varying degrees).
As a board game host, you have to get that spectrum, gauge group size and preference, and pick a game that will work for them. Strategic games, in particular, take learning the rules, learning the strategies, practicing them, learning your opponents... it can take a dozen games before you're competitive. And for a lot of people, almost none of those games will be any fun.
A few games kind of nail this with an unexpectedly even playing field, where strategy helps, but luck offsets it. If luck really offsets it, very strategic players will also find that it's no fun.
Some luck-based games I really like include Lords of Vegas (not to mention... just Vegas), Bunny Kingdom, and Flip 7.
A lot of card-based strategy games like Terraforming Mars and Wingspan certainly have some amount of luck in them, but it can be dwarfed by good synergy / strategy.
I think for big groups it’s not so much luck/randomness that is the key but complexity. Low complexity games are going to play better. They can be pure skill games. Many drinking games are (beer pong etc).
Luck/randomness is directly against determinism. A way of making feel less mechanical and opening up the combinatorial state space? Essentially increasing the fun/interest without introducing high complexity necessarily? As well as narrow the skill range as you say, but not necessarily over longer time horizons.
Like you can do a 2d matrix of luck and complexity.
Tic tac toe - low randomness, low complexity
Chess - low randomness, high complexity
Poker - med randomness, high complexity
Roulette - high randomness, low complexity
Being allowed to place bets makes it actually not a pure luck game. That game can be optimally solved given knowledge of the world because there are choices involved.
TFA's base game, however, is pure luck - you place no bets, you discard no cards, you make no decisions. Perhaps you influence things by how you roll, but probably not consciously. If the same die roll sequence and same card shuffle sequence is replayed, the game is the exact same.
There is also an even easier variant (best for young kids) where each person gets 1 or more horses.
You then have people roll the dice and move the horse one spot forward if the number on the dice match the horse number.
It's total luck but a great way to explain probability to the younger kids and probability distributions to the older kids.
Not to distract from what is undeniably a pretty cool thing, it's hard to even call these "games" as there's absolutely no decision making going on. I absolutely loathe games like these because you're not actually doing anything.
Agreed. You might as well play candy land.
I thought this was going to be about physical horse racing game, where "horses" are moved by random ball interactions
see f.e. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nDQEI3s_2aI
I love what they're calling here "zero-player" games. They're automatons that you can build other games on top of (often in combination with other automatons) or, like this, they are games where players can simply identify themselves with one of the game's components. The latter are excellent for groups of drunk people.
Spectator sports are basically zero-player games.
Another classic is "LCR" (Left Center Right), and one that was popular a few years back is "Yahtzee Turbo."
Reminds me of the horse racing game in needful things.
kalshi has a feature in beta right now that lets the public bet on the outcomes of this game
Candyland with extra steps.
A great uncle of mine had made a similar but simpler game like this we used to play, decades & decades & decades ago. He didn't take credit for it, but he'd gotten it printed on a huge nice sheet of paper, and had horses that advanced down it. You just place bets and turn over cards for each horse, and the highest card horse advances. On rainy days we'd sit in the living room, my sibling & I, basically on top of the giant horse race game, making bets & turning over cards to see who the winner would be.
Our game was shorter, and only had uhh 6 tracks I think. The odds rose quite a lot for the un-favored horses, like, a lot a lot. The horses/tracks all had names, but I can't remember their names.