I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though.
However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.
It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.
I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.
I own a Piaggio 300cc Scooter, not called a Vespa because it is one of the big wheel variants (similar to Honda SH line) but it has the same engine as the Vespa 300GTS.
It is not at all noisy unless I rev it high, which I try to avoid doing most of the time. It is not loud like for instance a Yamaha T-Max, not helped by it attracting mostly complete retards.
Obviously there are always dumb people mounting akrapovic or other noisy aftermarket exhausts on any bike brand but it is also the same with cars.
For better or worse, probably worse, the definitions of both "moped" and "scooter" vary from person to person or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. "Moped" is often used to describe a light motorcycle.
Ive been riding scooters and motorcycles for 20 years and I to this day I have no clear image of what a moped might be. I always imagined a theoretical spectrum from pure bicycle -> gas motor equipped bicycle-> moped -> pure motorcycle, but have never encountered a moped.
I'm not disagreeing with the origin of the word, I'm just saying it's expanded and changed.
Have you ever "shipped" something that at no point in its journey was carried on a floating vessel? Do you correct people when they say they're shipping something by ground or air?
I’m a big advocate of two wheeled transportation. The differences between bicycles, e-bikes, mopeds, and motorcycles are important and meaningful. The misuse of terminology by entitled car drivers and the ignorant public literally kills people every day. Yes, I am aware people are wrong. No, I don’t care to compromise.
I haven't been following the latest developments but about 10 years ago they launched "Vespa elettrica". It was very expensive and low powered at launch. Not sure if they've iterated on it since.
I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better
Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.
Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)
And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.
Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..
> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.
Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.
This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.
It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.
You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.
My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.
My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.
You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding arrogant, ignorant pedestrians all my life.
The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.
If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.
Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.
But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.
It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.
You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path
I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop
In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.
As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.
i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore
The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.
> And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.
Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.
The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.
Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.
Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.
In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.
Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.
My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimpy, and the Viennese will scream extra bloody murder at you for honks as well, especially if they’re the ones standing foolishly in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..
I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk to make it beefier (although honk usage can get you a traffic ticket in Vienna), but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..
You should join our unu Community Discord, we have someone who upgraded to what is basically two fog horns at ungodly decibel levels ... but we can also reactivate the builtin speaker and add the spaceship noise maybe?
I also live in Vietnam and that's utter bs, sorry. People in Vietnam are generally chill and lovely, until they get onto the road where they become selfish, entitled, noisy assholes. They honk to avoid having to look, wait, or slow down. Trying to be a pedestrian in Vietnam is extremely stressful, nobody will ever give you right of way even on a sidewalk, instead they'll just drive directly at you while honking until you get out of the way.
That og elettrica has been all but cancelled in most markets. It was grossly underpowered and overpriced, which is a shame. IIRC they relaunched it as the primavera elettrica, without all the green/yellow bits, but it's still the same bike.
I have a couple of Vespas - a '98 T5 and a 2011 PX Unità d'Italia - and honestly my favourite safety feature is the noise they _can_ make. Modern Vespas don’t sound like the old ones from the factory anymore, but the retro scene is strong, so a lot of tuning kits bring back that classic buzz.
In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.
I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.
So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.
Solving the safety problem by making it loud does not seem like a great solution.
Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.
It's not a great solution but it's the best one I've got, and it's still more ecological than driving the (electric) car for the same one-person trip. And audible != loud.
Anyway, don't most places legally require nearly silent electric vehicles to emit some kind of artificial noise?
People who sleep with the windows opened in summer at night(most Europeans) facing the street where vespas are driving would beg to differ.
Then there's the separate issue that some(many?) owners either rev their vespas for more power(maybe due to worn belt) or they just fuck with their exhaust to squeeze more power at the expense of noise.
Either way, there's plenty of good reasons people find mopeds/scooter overall far more noisy and annoying than cars.
A guy across the street from me has a new one. It's loud as hell, but this guy is the type to remove his muffler to make whatever car he has this week sound "cooler". I'm not ready to blame the scooter yet.
Yeah, even most two stroke mopeds are tolerable in terms of sound level with stock parts. At least where I'm from youth often replace the exhaust pipe with larger one that maybe brings slight power boost, and a massive increase in noise level. Unfortunately police doesn't really care although it's technically illegal, and these hooligans get to ruin other people's sleep.
I'm talking about the Vespas I actually experience on a daily basis. I don't know if they're new or old, but I can assure you that they are loud and smoky.
I have to agree that the amount of pollution these things put out is really a dealbreaker in modern times, in my opinion. They really smell up a street when they go by, it’s so noticeable after having mainly electric cars and bicycles going by.
A friend races Vespas. They are apparently well suited to tuning (perhaps being poorly tuned from factory?), and power is much increased. The noise seems to go up vastly.
He has to re-weld the frame from time to time due to the cracks that form.
This is a really weird take that does not resemble any modern Vespa. Are you sure you looked at a modern Vespa and not some old 2 stroke thing?
Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.
As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.
Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.
I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).
But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.
I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).
> I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving
Having followed a similar path, the lifestyle upgrade of moving to an EV, then abandoning car dependant commuting use is great.
In the pouring rain and howling wind I do occasionally wonder what I’m doing, but sitting in a traffic jam is awful.
> And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Add to this: car stereos and the craze for adding (stolen) school PA speakers for playing obnoxiously loud music.
There literally are og electric vespas, I don't think they're great value for money but I guess people like the way they look. Then again, I'd rather see more of them in the city than loud motorcycles
https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/primavera/primavera-elet...
Reading through the comments I somehow doubt that many have owned or ridden a Vespa that was built in the last 10 years or so.
I've had a 300cc Vespa GTS for a decade now (alongside a few motorcycles) and the thing that is the most striking about it is how relaxing it is to drive. Despite being somewhat heavy, they are very manoeuvrable due to the low center of gravity. The suspension is very good and despite the roads here being awful it just glides over any bumps and smooths them out. The 300cc engine is fairly quiet and provides more torque than you need. When the lights turn green you'll be over the intersection before the motorcyclists have had time to release the clutch and get going.
It does well on the open road too. It isn't a race machine, but it'll do 120km/h (75 mph) which is good enough. And you won't feel stiff and bent when you arrive if you decide to take it on a 6 hour ride.
I didn't get it for the looks/style. Yes, I did think it was a bit of a gimmick. And then I tried it. I thought I was doing 60/kmh when I was doing 80km/h. And it just glided over bumps.
(And yes, I have a motorcycle as well, but I'm European so it means I don't ride a motorcycle to get into road rage incidents. We actually try to get along here)
You're making it sound like the motorcycle equivalent of the original Fiat Panda 4x4 (well, except that you didn't mention anything about repairability, but you get the vibe I'm going for)
And I live in a place where BMW sent two engineers and a test car to verify that, indeed, the roads here rattle cars to bits. They were not getting ripped off by people pretending their beemers broke.
I will now go off topic a bit. I guess that Americans might not know about it, but Pavarotti enjoyed driving his scooter. There are photos of him in his villa driving his scooter that nowadays might make you think they're Ai generated but they're real and very Italian
Piaggio also designed a car (well, more than one including bad prototypes), which unfortunately wasn't sold in italy due to a gentleman's agreement with fiat (fiat being much bigger basically went if you start selling cars, we'll build motorcycles). The English Wikipedia doesn't include this snippet of history, the Italian page does though https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACMA_Vespa_400
Piaggio also designed the Ape (bee) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape a 3 wheel tiny pickup. It was hugely popular, but of course not as much as the Vespa because of the smaller market. I still see some of them especially in country areas.
Still remember driving one with my dad (I was 6) back from a vendemmia (grape harvest) with the back fully loaded of at least 18 100-litre harvest buckets, on a 7-10% slope, which the ape did effortlessly.
I hated our Vespa when I was a kid in the seventies but their calendars were cool. You know that instinct you get when you're slowing down or coming to a stop, where you just want to stick your feet out for balance? Well, every time I did that, I felt like those sharp metal edges on the Vespa were just waiting to scrape my leg or catch my ankle. It wasn't a bike to me; it was a hazard on two wheels.
So when the opportunity came to "borrow" it while my father was napping, I gladly handed the honor over to my brother. Off we went, buzzing through the dark to see the aftermath of an airstrike on an oil refinery at the edge of the city. It was pitch black out there, and before we knew it, we'd tipped right into a ditch on the side of the road.
Panic was not because we were hurt, but because we were convinced our father would somehow know we'd taken his Vespa. Luckily, a few strangers happened to pass by and helped us haul the thing back up. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson, but soon after, I pulled a similar stunt, this time with our white Volkswagen.
Grew up in India riding my Vespa (LML Vespa). A 150cc scooter. It was very old technology I guess but I never had problems with it. The new Vespa looks very cool and seems to have much better balance. It makes me very happy to see Vespa now on the roads at times where I live. I always think, someday I will buy one.
There's a culture for modding Vespas in Indonesia that I think HN folks would find interesing - check out "Vespa extreme"/"Vespa gembel" - sort of like if mad-max was in the jungle culture of chopping and rebuilding old Vespas into all sorts of wild road machines. Pretty interesting kind of hippie/punk subculture.
> "The first ads for the Vespa featured a woman," said Sarra. "You could call it a kind of feminist design."
Well, a big feature of the Vespa design is that, unlike other motorcycles, women (or Scottish men) can ride them with skirts. Surely that helped with their initial popularity.
Vespas are fashionable and cute but the coolest thing on 2 wheels award goes to Simsons of all colors and stripes (2-stroke or electric, pick your poison). In Germany, the grandfathered 2-strokes are also the only way you can legally ride somethibg faster than 45 km/h on a moped license.
Scooters main priority have been cheap practicality. Fuel efficiency is part of the “cheap” part.
Yamaha’s blue core engine used in its mid sized 300cc scooters can do 2.8L per 100km. It’s 125 engines can do 1.8L per 100km.
They’re incredibly efficient little vehicles
So far electric scooters can only compete in inner city with the equivalent power of a small 125 and limited range/speed due to size/weight constraints
And that's relevant how? If you live in a city where everyone owns a petrol scooter it's absurd. Can't wait for all of these to be electric, it's just common sense.
There is literally any noise from the engine, whine or otherwise. Whether a noise is bad or not can be subjective but silence is objective.
So at least for that one it kind of draws into question your overall conclusions here. You might be hearing an ICE and thinking it is electric, or some specific badly tuned vehicle or something.
But (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48792667) there is (it seems, I am not sure where it comes from) an especially fastidious noise from the engine, then additional noises to make the vehicle louder (and those I have heard are worse than nails on chalkboards), and then additional alarms to increase the "construction site" effect.
It is not a matter of decibels. It is a matter of nerves impact.
I wrote «the noise poll[u]tion I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs». Pollution. It has many dimensions - "loud" is just one.
You need to recharge electric vehicles (of course), and the recharging systems I am informed of require electronic money. Not all people have it. (And not all people accept leaving a DB track of their stops.)
"Cheap" makes no sense here - you may have misunderstood the post. Whether charging costs 1 penny or 1 grand, it is still inaccessible if the plugs are automated totems not accepting cash.
>>And the noise pollition I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs.
Is this some kind of trolling?
>>accessible (we do not have electronic money).
And is this some kind of joke? An electric scooter can be plugged into a solar panel and recharged within a day. For free. Even if every oil refinery on earth explodes you will be able to charge your electric scooter by the wonderful power of the sun.
Unless you mean the cost to purchase - have you seen the cost of a new Vespa? You can have two electric scooters for the price of a new Vespa.
And electric scooters have long ago matched needs of city users in terms of range. Recharge time isn't as fast as petrol, sure, but people tend not to drive scooters for 500 miles in a day. You drive it to work, drive it back, plug it in. Or charge during the day using solar.
Or you know, for really crazy sci-fi ideas just look at china, where electric scooters with swappable batteries are extremely common. Even if you work as a food delivery driver you can have a fresh fully charged battery in less time than it would take you to fill up with petrol.
No, perfectly serious. If your question is because you thought I meant noise levels - no, I meant noise quality. E.g. a good insulated ICE has a pleasant noise. On the contrary, the sane people I know physically panic in front of the strident cacophony and asylum level beeps that the new vehicles are bringing.
> An electric scooter can be plugged into a solar panel and recharged within a day. For free
Well, that is also not always satisfiable. But it's an idea: if you remain nearby, you could plug the solar panel in - and, with some structure, also get your shade. (Panel-as-umbrella. I am serious. Shade is not granted everywhere.)
But - still very serious - we know that research to make electric vehicle recharge through solar panels failed (not enough miles collected in a reasonable time): if the electric scooters are so efficient (in terms of miles/charge), would not it be a good idea to have them continuously under some solar power connection? Maybe "barrel roof" models - the roof as a solar panel stripe.
Anyway: as noted in the other replies, that recharge for electric vehicles passes through electronic money when you are far from your own outlets is a problem.
You know this is a thread about scooters, right? If you live somewhere like Rome or even London all you hear is just very loud revving all day long, not least because teenagers who ride them tend to just rev them for no reason. But even a vespa is very loud compared to a petrol car. And again, electric scooters usually don't have any kind of artificial synthetic noise to make themselves known like cars do. So it you magically replaced all petrol scooters with electric ones the streets would get about 50x quieter.
>>would not it be a good idea to have them continuously under some solar power connection?
Maybe. Scooters have tiny electric batteries, usually no more than 1-2kWh. That much can be easily recharged in a day from even a small solar panel. But I suspect a scooter with a canopy wouldn't be accepted purely because it looks weird. But you can get foldable panels that fit in your backpack, leave it on the scooter when you park it and it will recharge to full while you work.
Fair point about mediating between generics and specifics, but I am not sure I have yet heard an electric scooter's noise - I was more focused on electric engines in general, and I suspected that there can be similarities with the cars.
Relevant: I only returned to the thread today as yesterday I had to leave just after my post, and I walked thinking "I really cannot remember a loud Vespa". Destiny served: minutes later one passed by - admittedly much too loud. But I am not fully convinced somebody did not do something to it (the noise may have not been the out-of-the-factory one).
But you wrote «it's just common sense» and I am fully skeptical and wary about what could happen with the tech implementations. 'Cause also in real time, as I am typing, a Lexus (I think) passed by and even if the noise is low, its texture was sufficient to have me break the typing and go look at the perpetrator. Would common sense be something granted, electric vehicles would be planned as a nice solution - instead of torture with drawbacks, as we see it.
And: ok, urban context, but still: how do you charge them - suppose you live in a flat? What if solar is not sufficient?
And what if, still speaking of horrific implementation, with the current craze, they build "smartphones with two wheels"? Would we still be able to find "proper" (electric-based) ones, lean - say, without microphone GPS and tracking libraries?
You mention Rome: I had to notice that telephone conversations with people on public transport there are broken continuously by the bababababa of the doors alarms. Another perspective on urban noise and on common sense. The transformation of the landscape into the merge between mechanical factory and construction site is ongoing.
> leave it on the scooter when you park it
Well, that is part of the «that is also not always satisfiable» and «if you remain nearby» in my post. Your proposal (parking and leaving equipment there) could work in the Draconian Saudi Arabia, but not generically.
Yes, all of them are terrible and should have ceased to exist 10 years ago? Now is just the next best time. It won’t save the industry addicted to them of course, China has long gotten rid of them.
I've had a 2016 150cc LXVie in silver with maroon leather since new; have put about 6,000 city miles on it. It's a wonderful machine. I bought it when my wife died after we had taken the motorcycle certification together in anticipation of getting one someday soon. I'm in the process of selling it now, though, as it's time. But it's such an iconic brand and I constantly get thumbs up and even notes left on it.
I have a Vespa PX 125 from 1984.
It's a very robust motorbike, very less maintenance and really funny to drive with the gearshifter.
The only problem is about brakes: there are basically useless and you should be really careful on using them, especially if you are driving on wet road. Bad brakes and small wheels is a terrible combination.
Probably the main regret to WFH is not using my Vespa anymore as I did when I was going everyday in the office.
In my 20s I tried with two other friends to raise some money from local businesses to sponsor a coast to coast trip in the US on our vespas (I had 1968 150 Sprint Veloce in red). It didn’t work out, but now that I’m in my 40s I understand it would have been a terrible idea ^^’
I love Vespas. I have a bunch of old Hondas that are amazing for different reasons but they’re all motorcycles so people will randomly try to kill me to prove a point. But on a Vespa you can do anything and people will just smile and wave. Literally everyone loves them. I went on a day ride with some friends and while they were refilling their motorcycles I just rode circles around them in the gas station because I could. Then I passed everyone on the highway because I could do that too. They’re hilarious.
Possibly the coolest thing I’ve ever seen was a guy coming up to an intersection on a Vespa. Somehow he chucked it sideways and skidded down the lane scrubbing off speed, then straightened up, split the lanes and hit the front as the light went green, and took off.
Completely alarming and rather dangerous to all around him.
Ah ah my youth! I had a Vespa with a 200cc engine, three speeds, from the 80s: this thing would do a wheelie in 1st gear. And very hard to control wheelie for the weight is uneven on a Vespa. My brother had a rare Vespa 125 cc from 1961 or something: when he left the country he sold it to a friend who still owns it.
Another friend of mine --the reason we all had Vespa back then-- could disassemble and reassemble them with his eyes closed, including the engine.
We'd go to flea markets and garage sales around the country looking for Vespa, Lambrettas and even french Solex for sale. Best find was not a Vespa though but a real Honda Monkey Z50.
One day I forgot to put oil in a Vespa and the engine just froze: cylinder expanded in the piston and rear-wheel locked in place. Somehow I didn't crash. I put oil (you typically had oil with you, in a tiny trunk), waited for the thing to cool down: it just started back up (!).
These were the days, thanks for posting that on HN.
P.S: it's really sad we cannot have nice things posted without having the majority of comments being from environmental-jihadists : (
> without having the majority of comments being from environmental-jihadists
Not to break your wishful thinking filled bubble, but those are very clearly not "will somebody please think about the environment" type comments. Plenty of people simply fucking despise the ever living shit out of this class of vehicle, just in general.
You really don't need to give two hot shits about the environment to find scooters obnoxiously loud smoke factories, to have a problem with that, and to be absolutely fucking over them as a result. Delivery drivers made sure of that in the past years. I'm sure it's much more convenient for you to just file it under your favorite political grift, but I assure you with confidence, the hate on these is entirely self-interested and genuine.
FWIW, I have absolutely nothing against people loving these things, having fond memories of it, whatever. In fact, I do not see having a love for them and not wanting them on the/certain roads as fundamentally incompatible even. It was the absurd ideological pigeonholing that got to me.
Heartwrenching that OP has a hard-on against environmentalism and feels/is victimized by its proponents on the regular, but it's super not what people were yapping about, isn't at all required for the positions purported, and this really couldn't have been any clearer. Asserting otherwise is intellectually insulting.
I could even sympathize with not wanting to read scooter hate every time scooters come up, which I can definitely imagine to be a phenomenon, but then I would also appreciate not having to read people randomly soapboxing and projecting broad scale political alignments, so that's kind of a 1:1 unfortunately.
Um, sorry. If you've ever sat behind a poorly maintained vespa at a stop light, and in it's cloud of exhaust when it takes off, then you definitely don't think it's cool...
Same thing for old beetles and VW buses. Total smog creators.
I hate to say it but good riddance! OK to keep as a classic icon for everything on the road but definitely not something that I would want to continue being popular.
I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though.
However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.
It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.
I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.
I own a Piaggio 300cc Scooter, not called a Vespa because it is one of the big wheel variants (similar to Honda SH line) but it has the same engine as the Vespa 300GTS.
It is not at all noisy unless I rev it high, which I try to avoid doing most of the time. It is not loud like for instance a Yamaha T-Max, not helped by it attracting mostly complete retards.
Obviously there are always dumb people mounting akrapovic or other noisy aftermarket exhausts on any bike brand but it is also the same with cars.
Hell is exist but it is not full of mopeds.
Of course, mopeds only runs on the vestibule, then lucifer and its friends wait on bigger and noiser bikes.
Vespas aren’t mopeds.
For better or worse, probably worse, the definitions of both "moped" and "scooter" vary from person to person or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. "Moped" is often used to describe a light motorcycle.
Language changes. I guarantee if you ask 100 people to draw a moped, maybe 2 will put pedals on it.
Ive been riding scooters and motorcycles for 20 years and I to this day I have no clear image of what a moped might be. I always imagined a theoretical spectrum from pure bicycle -> gas motor equipped bicycle-> moped -> pure motorcycle, but have never encountered a moped.
Scooter do not have pedals, mopeds do, hence the name.
The Piaggio Vespa is a scooter. The Piaggio Ciao is a moped.
No. Mopeds have pedals. That’s the “ped” part of motor pedal.
I'm not disagreeing with the origin of the word, I'm just saying it's expanded and changed.
Have you ever "shipped" something that at no point in its journey was carried on a floating vessel? Do you correct people when they say they're shipping something by ground or air?
I’m a big advocate of two wheeled transportation. The differences between bicycles, e-bikes, mopeds, and motorcycles are important and meaningful. The misuse of terminology by entitled car drivers and the ignorant public literally kills people every day. Yes, I am aware people are wrong. No, I don’t care to compromise.
I'm not sure the difference between moped and scooter is killing people everyday. I don't think it is. Can you give an example?
the elettrica motors are (obviously) electric, too, and for some models come in a couple versions.
https://www.vespa.com/en_EN/electric-range/
Yes, but still terrible, pollution wise.
Electric Vespa anyone?
They did make one for a while but it's terrible. €5000 with similar specs to a €1000 bike from other companies.
They still make some models in an electric variant.
I haven't been following the latest developments but about 10 years ago they launched "Vespa elettrica". It was very expensive and low powered at launch. Not sure if they've iterated on it since.
I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better
Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.
Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)
And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.
Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..
> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.
What a goofy comment.
Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.
Not the driver's fault.
UK law says if you hit someone, it's your fault.
If you're going fast enough in an area where someone could step out, and someone does step out, if you hit them then you were clearly going too fast.
This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.
It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.
You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.
My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.
My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.
You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding arrogant, ignorant pedestrians all my life.
The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.
If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.
Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.
But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.
It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.
You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path
I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop
In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.
As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.
i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore
The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.
“Pedestrians are dumb” is the mantra that keeps me, and them, alive. I utter it many times a day ..
> And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.
Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.
The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.
TBQH from my experience people in Vienna are quite oblivious to single-track vehicles. No idea why but even cycling here is often scary.
Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.
Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.
In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.
I found the tram tracks more alarming than the pedestrians, but I was on those hire bikes which top out at about 25kmh and are like riding a brick.
Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.
My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimpy, and the Viennese will scream extra bloody murder at you for honks as well, especially if they’re the ones standing foolishly in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..
I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk to make it beefier (although honk usage can get you a traffic ticket in Vienna), but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..
You should join our unu Community Discord, we have someone who upgraded to what is basically two fog horns at ungodly decibel levels ... but we can also reactivate the builtin speaker and add the spaceship noise maybe?
I also live in Vietnam and that's utter bs, sorry. People in Vietnam are generally chill and lovely, until they get onto the road where they become selfish, entitled, noisy assholes. They honk to avoid having to look, wait, or slow down. Trying to be a pedestrian in Vietnam is extremely stressful, nobody will ever give you right of way even on a sidewalk, instead they'll just drive directly at you while honking until you get out of the way.
Vespas have been around for so long because it is such a great design. They now make an electric Vespa.
https://storeusa.vespa.com/elettrica/vespa-elettrica-45-mph....
That og elettrica has been all but cancelled in most markets. It was grossly underpowered and overpriced, which is a shame. IIRC they relaunched it as the primavera elettrica, without all the green/yellow bits, but it's still the same bike.
I have a couple of Vespas - a '98 T5 and a 2011 PX Unità d'Italia - and honestly my favourite safety feature is the noise they _can_ make. Modern Vespas don’t sound like the old ones from the factory anymore, but the retro scene is strong, so a lot of tuning kits bring back that classic buzz.
In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.
I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.
So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.
Solving the safety problem by making it loud does not seem like a great solution.
Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.
It's not a great solution but it's the best one I've got, and it's still more ecological than driving the (electric) car for the same one-person trip. And audible != loud.
Anyway, don't most places legally require nearly silent electric vehicles to emit some kind of artificial noise?
>And audible != loud
People who sleep with the windows opened in summer at night(most Europeans) facing the street where vespas are driving would beg to differ.
Then there's the separate issue that some(many?) owners either rev their vespas for more power(maybe due to worn belt) or they just fuck with their exhaust to squeeze more power at the expense of noise.
Either way, there's plenty of good reasons people find mopeds/scooter overall far more noisy and annoying than cars.
Should license movement noises from Hanna-Barbera. Jetsons or Flintstones are good, but there's probably other options.
Are you thinking of older Vespas? There's a few modern ones near me and they've never struck me as overly noisy.
A guy across the street from me has a new one. It's loud as hell, but this guy is the type to remove his muffler to make whatever car he has this week sound "cooler". I'm not ready to blame the scooter yet.
Yeah, even most two stroke mopeds are tolerable in terms of sound level with stock parts. At least where I'm from youth often replace the exhaust pipe with larger one that maybe brings slight power boost, and a massive increase in noise level. Unfortunately police doesn't really care although it's technically illegal, and these hooligans get to ruin other people's sleep.
I'm talking about the Vespas I actually experience on a daily basis. I don't know if they're new or old, but I can assure you that they are loud and smoky.
Yeah I have no idea what they are talking about
I have a 150 4-stroke that is fuel injected and it’s way quieter than any motorcycle and has very little exhaust smell
The older ones or modified ones.
My parents have a newer 50cc and even at full speed it doesn’t make more noise than any car.
I had an old p200e 2-stroke Vespa and it was indeed smoky and loud. And also way more fun and useful.
I have to agree that the amount of pollution these things put out is really a dealbreaker in modern times, in my opinion. They really smell up a street when they go by, it’s so noticeable after having mainly electric cars and bicycles going by.
You’re likely thinking of the old 2 strokes - the newer ones are much of a muchness with other 4 stroke motos.
What I mean is, all these gasoline powered scooters are terrible.
My brother and I restored my dad’s ‘64 Vespa 150S and the thing is extremely loud!
It is very smelly as well as it’s a two stroke engine, but I don’t mind that at all. Quite the opposite
Agree, as long as you don't use it around other people it's probably fine.
A friend races Vespas. They are apparently well suited to tuning (perhaps being poorly tuned from factory?), and power is much increased. The noise seems to go up vastly.
He has to re-weld the frame from time to time due to the cracks that form.
This is a really weird take that does not resemble any modern Vespa. Are you sure you looked at a modern Vespa and not some old 2 stroke thing?
Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.
As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.
Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.
Could they just shove an electric motor into a beautiful Vespa?
admittedly i have not used a vespa myself, only seen. but an e bike is a pretty good mode of motor transport.
The lack of noise and smoke is a big one.
I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).
But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.
I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).
> I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving
Having followed a similar path, the lifestyle upgrade of moving to an EV, then abandoning car dependant commuting use is great.
In the pouring rain and howling wind I do occasionally wonder what I’m doing, but sitting in a traffic jam is awful.
> And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Add to this: car stereos and the craze for adding (stolen) school PA speakers for playing obnoxiously loud music.
Ive seen someone make electric retrofit kits for vespas which sounds great to me
There literally are og electric vespas, I don't think they're great value for money but I guess people like the way they look. Then again, I'd rather see more of them in the city than loud motorcycles https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/primavera/primavera-elet...
The Sprint also does an electric model too when I look around that site.
https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/sprint/sprint-s-elettric...
They're noisy, underpowered and way too expensive (also in maintenance). No wonder most of developing world rides Hondas.
Reading through the comments I somehow doubt that many have owned or ridden a Vespa that was built in the last 10 years or so.
I've had a 300cc Vespa GTS for a decade now (alongside a few motorcycles) and the thing that is the most striking about it is how relaxing it is to drive. Despite being somewhat heavy, they are very manoeuvrable due to the low center of gravity. The suspension is very good and despite the roads here being awful it just glides over any bumps and smooths them out. The 300cc engine is fairly quiet and provides more torque than you need. When the lights turn green you'll be over the intersection before the motorcyclists have had time to release the clutch and get going.
It does well on the open road too. It isn't a race machine, but it'll do 120km/h (75 mph) which is good enough. And you won't feel stiff and bent when you arrive if you decide to take it on a 6 hour ride.
I didn't get it for the looks/style. Yes, I did think it was a bit of a gimmick. And then I tried it. I thought I was doing 60/kmh when I was doing 80km/h. And it just glided over bumps.
(And yes, I have a motorcycle as well, but I'm European so it means I don't ride a motorcycle to get into road rage incidents. We actually try to get along here)
I'm surprised the small diameter wheels allow for such a good ride.
You're thinking about the stability? That's all down to very low center of gravity.
The 300GTS is amazing. It can do anything.
Split traffic on the way to the farmers market while getting waves from random people? Easy.
80mph up a hill on the way to the park? Also yes.
Ride through the park to set up a picnic? Not only yes but it literally has a built in cooler.
Just a total zero compromise vehicle.
And you can buy one for what five grand? All other motorcycles (which I have many of) are stupid.
You're making it sound like the motorcycle equivalent of the original Fiat Panda 4x4 (well, except that you didn't mention anything about repairability, but you get the vibe I'm going for)
Well, zero repairs so far.
And I live in a place where BMW sent two engineers and a test car to verify that, indeed, the roads here rattle cars to bits. They were not getting ripped off by people pretending their beemers broke.
To be repairable it has to break first, which Vespas don’t. I did replace a voltage regulator once. It was a non-event.
The horror that was aluminium engine. You could open and close a screw only twice and goodbye threads.
The trade-off being (I'm guessing) that those threads would be pretty easy to re-tap by hand?
I think the usual move once threads are gone, is to move to a steel threaded insert (helicoil, time-sert, etc)
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/thread-repair-inserts/thre...
or go up a diameter if that's feasible.
I will now go off topic a bit. I guess that Americans might not know about it, but Pavarotti enjoyed driving his scooter. There are photos of him in his villa driving his scooter that nowadays might make you think they're Ai generated but they're real and very Italian
https://www.inmoto.it/news/curiosita/2025/08/14-8327674/pava...
Piaggio also designed a car (well, more than one including bad prototypes), which unfortunately wasn't sold in italy due to a gentleman's agreement with fiat (fiat being much bigger basically went if you start selling cars, we'll build motorcycles). The English Wikipedia doesn't include this snippet of history, the Italian page does though https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACMA_Vespa_400
Piaggio also designed the Ape (bee) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape a 3 wheel tiny pickup. It was hugely popular, but of course not as much as the Vespa because of the smaller market. I still see some of them especially in country areas.
Well in italy I definitely see a lot of them although they're not assembled here anymore
The funniest version is the presidential one gifted to the president of the republic in 2008 https://www.museopiaggio.it/it/collezioni/2-piaggio/57-ape-c...
Still remember driving one with my dad (I was 6) back from a vendemmia (grape harvest) with the back fully loaded of at least 18 100-litre harvest buckets, on a 7-10% slope, which the ape did effortlessly.
I hated our Vespa when I was a kid in the seventies but their calendars were cool. You know that instinct you get when you're slowing down or coming to a stop, where you just want to stick your feet out for balance? Well, every time I did that, I felt like those sharp metal edges on the Vespa were just waiting to scrape my leg or catch my ankle. It wasn't a bike to me; it was a hazard on two wheels. So when the opportunity came to "borrow" it while my father was napping, I gladly handed the honor over to my brother. Off we went, buzzing through the dark to see the aftermath of an airstrike on an oil refinery at the edge of the city. It was pitch black out there, and before we knew it, we'd tipped right into a ditch on the side of the road. Panic was not because we were hurt, but because we were convinced our father would somehow know we'd taken his Vespa. Luckily, a few strangers happened to pass by and helped us haul the thing back up. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson, but soon after, I pulled a similar stunt, this time with our white Volkswagen.
Air strikes? Where was this?
Grew up in India riding my Vespa (LML Vespa). A 150cc scooter. It was very old technology I guess but I never had problems with it. The new Vespa looks very cool and seems to have much better balance. It makes me very happy to see Vespa now on the roads at times where I live. I always think, someday I will buy one.
There's a culture for modding Vespas in Indonesia that I think HN folks would find interesing - check out "Vespa extreme"/"Vespa gembel" - sort of like if mad-max was in the jungle culture of chopping and rebuilding old Vespas into all sorts of wild road machines. Pretty interesting kind of hippie/punk subculture.
These are wild, very creative, Thank you for the reference!
https://youtu.be/uVeVZ-Iugkg
Timeless iconic Italian design.
I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the role Vespa (and Lambretta) played in the British Mod scene.
You can see it's influence in the RAF roundel stickers on bikes in the article.
For anyone interested Quadrophenia is still a fun introduction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrophenia_(film)
> "The first ads for the Vespa featured a woman," said Sarra. "You could call it a kind of feminist design." Well, a big feature of the Vespa design is that, unlike other motorcycles, women (or Scottish men) can ride them with skirts. Surely that helped with their initial popularity.
'Kilt! Whas happ'n tae'e last wee rocket as call't a skirt'
https://www.amazon.com/Kilt-Happened-Person-Called-Skirt/dp/...
But you're not wrong. I haven't rode and actual Vespa, but have been on a Yamaha Vino YJ50 in my full montie gallus kilt, frae bunnet tae brogues.
Vespas are fashionable and cute but the coolest thing on 2 wheels award goes to Simsons of all colors and stripes (2-stroke or electric, pick your poison). In Germany, the grandfathered 2-strokes are also the only way you can legally ride somethibg faster than 45 km/h on a moped license.
Second Ride is offering electric conversion kits giving you the best of both worlds: electric scooter, going 60km/h...
This sort of thing?
The bars look like an 80s bmx.
https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2021/12/27/23/50/motorcycle-68...
Yes that's a Simson, one of several models
Iconic design, but way too noisy and dirty. Article doesn't mention "electric" once.
Are you talking about a 1950’s Vespa or a 2026 Vespa?
A modern 300cc four stroke Vespa will use 3.3 litres of fuel per 100km and Euro 5 means noise is quiet.
As far as things go, modern scooters are great, practical, economical vehicles.
Euro5 also means >90% less exhaust fumes compared to Euro1 which was introduced 1999 iirc. The difference between a 1950 and 2026 Vespa must be huge.
Even the new ones are awfully loud.
But, yeah, they don't smell like the old ones thankfully
Great to know. It seems like most of the ones in notice in the are an older vintage and/or poorly maintained.
> A modern 300cc four stroke Vespa will use 3.3 litres of fuel per 100km
Uh, I know motorcycle engines aren't particularly fuel-efficient (it's not a priority), but there seems to be, er, room for improvement.
Scooters main priority have been cheap practicality. Fuel efficiency is part of the “cheap” part.
Yamaha’s blue core engine used in its mid sized 300cc scooters can do 2.8L per 100km. It’s 125 engines can do 1.8L per 100km.
They’re incredibly efficient little vehicles
So far electric scooters can only compete in inner city with the equivalent power of a small 125 and limited range/speed due to size/weight constraints
A 2026 Honda SH150 uses 2.2 l / 100 km (up to about 70 km/h) and is very quiet. Made in Italy too.
you can get some 125cc motorcycle/scooter and run on half that
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The electric range of Vespas are using the same iconic design.
Taylor Swift just used how many tons to get married?
And that's relevant how? If you live in a city where everyone owns a petrol scooter it's absurd. Can't wait for all of these to be electric, it's just common sense.
my 2022 vespa gets over 65mpg and I don’t need to move 2,000 lbs of metal to get around. I assure you it is better for the world than driving an car.
...have I suggested otherwise?
When electric will be equally practical (recharge time, mileage) and accessible (we do not have electronic money).
And the noise pollition I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs.
What noise pollution do you hear from electric? You mean the noise cars make when they are backing up or what?
I mean the three:
-- the additional alarms you mention;
-- the noise from the engine (according to the assessment of mates, it should be that): it whines;
-- the additional noise made to increase their "presence" which is typically an unnatural synth chord.
All of that is absolutely unbearable to us.
There is literally any noise from the engine, whine or otherwise. Whether a noise is bad or not can be subjective but silence is objective.
So at least for that one it kind of draws into question your overall conclusions here. You might be hearing an ICE and thinking it is electric, or some specific badly tuned vehicle or something.
Whether stinky bait, or just bad sarcasm, you’ll need to up your game, this is weak.
No, I am absolutely serious. And you posted no content.
> the noise pollition I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs.
What are you talking about? The electric ones are significantly quieter.
But (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48792667) there is (it seems, I am not sure where it comes from) an especially fastidious noise from the engine, then additional noises to make the vehicle louder (and those I have heard are worse than nails on chalkboards), and then additional alarms to increase the "construction site" effect.
It is not a matter of decibels. It is a matter of nerves impact.
I wrote «the noise poll[u]tion I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs». Pollution. It has many dimensions - "loud" is just one.
Electronic money? Electric vehicles are cheaper to operate long term.
You need to recharge electric vehicles (of course), and the recharging systems I am informed of require electronic money. Not all people have it. (And not all people accept leaving a DB track of their stops.)
"Cheap" makes no sense here - you may have misunderstood the post. Whether charging costs 1 penny or 1 grand, it is still inaccessible if the plugs are automated totems not accepting cash.
>>And the noise pollition I hear coming from the electric to me is a million times worse than ICEs.
Is this some kind of trolling?
>>accessible (we do not have electronic money).
And is this some kind of joke? An electric scooter can be plugged into a solar panel and recharged within a day. For free. Even if every oil refinery on earth explodes you will be able to charge your electric scooter by the wonderful power of the sun.
Unless you mean the cost to purchase - have you seen the cost of a new Vespa? You can have two electric scooters for the price of a new Vespa.
And electric scooters have long ago matched needs of city users in terms of range. Recharge time isn't as fast as petrol, sure, but people tend not to drive scooters for 500 miles in a day. You drive it to work, drive it back, plug it in. Or charge during the day using solar.
Or you know, for really crazy sci-fi ideas just look at china, where electric scooters with swappable batteries are extremely common. Even if you work as a food delivery driver you can have a fresh fully charged battery in less time than it would take you to fill up with petrol.
> Is this some kind
No, perfectly serious. If your question is because you thought I meant noise levels - no, I meant noise quality. E.g. a good insulated ICE has a pleasant noise. On the contrary, the sane people I know physically panic in front of the strident cacophony and asylum level beeps that the new vehicles are bringing.
> An electric scooter can be plugged into a solar panel and recharged within a day. For free
Well, that is also not always satisfiable. But it's an idea: if you remain nearby, you could plug the solar panel in - and, with some structure, also get your shade. (Panel-as-umbrella. I am serious. Shade is not granted everywhere.)
But - still very serious - we know that research to make electric vehicle recharge through solar panels failed (not enough miles collected in a reasonable time): if the electric scooters are so efficient (in terms of miles/charge), would not it be a good idea to have them continuously under some solar power connection? Maybe "barrel roof" models - the roof as a solar panel stripe.
Anyway: as noted in the other replies, that recharge for electric vehicles passes through electronic money when you are far from your own outlets is a problem.
>>E.g. a good insulated ICE has a pleasant noise
You know this is a thread about scooters, right? If you live somewhere like Rome or even London all you hear is just very loud revving all day long, not least because teenagers who ride them tend to just rev them for no reason. But even a vespa is very loud compared to a petrol car. And again, electric scooters usually don't have any kind of artificial synthetic noise to make themselves known like cars do. So it you magically replaced all petrol scooters with electric ones the streets would get about 50x quieter.
>>would not it be a good idea to have them continuously under some solar power connection?
Maybe. Scooters have tiny electric batteries, usually no more than 1-2kWh. That much can be easily recharged in a day from even a small solar panel. But I suspect a scooter with a canopy wouldn't be accepted purely because it looks weird. But you can get foldable panels that fit in your backpack, leave it on the scooter when you park it and it will recharge to full while you work.
> You know this is a thread about scooters
Fair point about mediating between generics and specifics, but I am not sure I have yet heard an electric scooter's noise - I was more focused on electric engines in general, and I suspected that there can be similarities with the cars.
Relevant: I only returned to the thread today as yesterday I had to leave just after my post, and I walked thinking "I really cannot remember a loud Vespa". Destiny served: minutes later one passed by - admittedly much too loud. But I am not fully convinced somebody did not do something to it (the noise may have not been the out-of-the-factory one).
But you wrote «it's just common sense» and I am fully skeptical and wary about what could happen with the tech implementations. 'Cause also in real time, as I am typing, a Lexus (I think) passed by and even if the noise is low, its texture was sufficient to have me break the typing and go look at the perpetrator. Would common sense be something granted, electric vehicles would be planned as a nice solution - instead of torture with drawbacks, as we see it.
And: ok, urban context, but still: how do you charge them - suppose you live in a flat? What if solar is not sufficient?
And what if, still speaking of horrific implementation, with the current craze, they build "smartphones with two wheels"? Would we still be able to find "proper" (electric-based) ones, lean - say, without microphone GPS and tracking libraries?
You mention Rome: I had to notice that telephone conversations with people on public transport there are broken continuously by the bababababa of the doors alarms. Another perspective on urban noise and on common sense. The transformation of the landscape into the merge between mechanical factory and construction site is ongoing.
> leave it on the scooter when you park it
Well, that is part of the «that is also not always satisfiable» and «if you remain nearby» in my post. Your proposal (parking and leaving equipment there) could work in the Draconian Saudi Arabia, but not generically.
Maybe because not everyone cares, while the planet gets destroyed with wars, private jets and AI centers?
Noise pollution is a different issue than "saving the planet".
That is only an issue when driving 50cc and applies to all of them, regardless of which kind of motorbike.
Or those that love "tuning" taking the noise filters out of the escapes.
Yes, all of them are terrible and should have ceased to exist 10 years ago? Now is just the next best time. It won’t save the industry addicted to them of course, China has long gotten rid of them.
Well, everything is doable when following the same kind of government based "education".
Also lets ignore drilling the planet for rare minerals in the process, that China owns.
This is a nice movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8885658/ (Enrico Piaggio - Un sogno italiano)
I've had a 2016 150cc LXVie in silver with maroon leather since new; have put about 6,000 city miles on it. It's a wonderful machine. I bought it when my wife died after we had taken the motorcycle certification together in anticipation of getting one someday soon. I'm in the process of selling it now, though, as it's time. But it's such an iconic brand and I constantly get thumbs up and even notes left on it.
I have a Vespa PX 125 from 1984. It's a very robust motorbike, very less maintenance and really funny to drive with the gearshifter. The only problem is about brakes: there are basically useless and you should be really careful on using them, especially if you are driving on wet road. Bad brakes and small wheels is a terrible combination.
Probably the main regret to WFH is not using my Vespa anymore as I did when I was going everyday in the office.
Heavy, uncomfortable, not eco-friendly, and overpriced.
There are electric models now.
The coolest thing if you're not behind them inhaling their exhaust fumes.
The older ones had more fumes. Newer models are cleaner. There are also electric models now.
…and here I am a dumb American tourist who knew nothing about Vespa’s and was just upset because I couldn’t get my uber and missed my train.
Now I want one!
Vespa VBB 150 from 1964 owner here, love it!
Vespa VBB 150 from 1969 owner here, love it!
In my 20s I tried with two other friends to raise some money from local businesses to sponsor a coast to coast trip in the US on our vespas (I had 1968 150 Sprint Veloce in red). It didn’t work out, but now that I’m in my 40s I understand it would have been a terrible idea ^^’
Meh. I guess people like the style. The Honda Cub had far more impact worldwide and is a superior machine in every aspect.
> a superior machine in every aspect.
Style?
I love Vespas. I have a bunch of old Hondas that are amazing for different reasons but they’re all motorcycles so people will randomly try to kill me to prove a point. But on a Vespa you can do anything and people will just smile and wave. Literally everyone loves them. I went on a day ride with some friends and while they were refilling their motorcycles I just rode circles around them in the gas station because I could. Then I passed everyone on the highway because I could do that too. They’re hilarious.
Possibly the coolest thing I’ve ever seen was a guy coming up to an intersection on a Vespa. Somehow he chucked it sideways and skidded down the lane scrubbing off speed, then straightened up, split the lanes and hit the front as the light went green, and took off.
Completely alarming and rather dangerous to all around him.
Cheryl Tunt: "Mopeds are fun, but you don't want your buddies to see you riding one."
Unless you're in UK.
https://lambrettauk.co.uk/post/rockers-vs-mods-a-short-histo...
Ah ah my youth! I had a Vespa with a 200cc engine, three speeds, from the 80s: this thing would do a wheelie in 1st gear. And very hard to control wheelie for the weight is uneven on a Vespa. My brother had a rare Vespa 125 cc from 1961 or something: when he left the country he sold it to a friend who still owns it.
Another friend of mine --the reason we all had Vespa back then-- could disassemble and reassemble them with his eyes closed, including the engine.
We'd go to flea markets and garage sales around the country looking for Vespa, Lambrettas and even french Solex for sale. Best find was not a Vespa though but a real Honda Monkey Z50.
One day I forgot to put oil in a Vespa and the engine just froze: cylinder expanded in the piston and rear-wheel locked in place. Somehow I didn't crash. I put oil (you typically had oil with you, in a tiny trunk), waited for the thing to cool down: it just started back up (!).
These were the days, thanks for posting that on HN.
P.S: it's really sad we cannot have nice things posted without having the majority of comments being from environmental-jihadists : (
I had a 50cc and also could do wheelies. I loved my Vespa, it was always ready for whatever I wanted to do. Sometimes 45kmh, in a warm day even 55.
> without having the majority of comments being from environmental-jihadists
Not to break your wishful thinking filled bubble, but those are very clearly not "will somebody please think about the environment" type comments. Plenty of people simply fucking despise the ever living shit out of this class of vehicle, just in general.
You really don't need to give two hot shits about the environment to find scooters obnoxiously loud smoke factories, to have a problem with that, and to be absolutely fucking over them as a result. Delivery drivers made sure of that in the past years. I'm sure it's much more convenient for you to just file it under your favorite political grift, but I assure you with confidence, the hate on these is entirely self-interested and genuine.
> the hate on these is entirely self-interested
I’ve never before considered altruistic hate versus self interested hate.
I’ve a foot in both camps over scooter noise and fumes, but do love a good Vespa.
FWIW, I have absolutely nothing against people loving these things, having fond memories of it, whatever. In fact, I do not see having a love for them and not wanting them on the/certain roads as fundamentally incompatible even. It was the absurd ideological pigeonholing that got to me.
Heartwrenching that OP has a hard-on against environmentalism and feels/is victimized by its proponents on the regular, but it's super not what people were yapping about, isn't at all required for the positions purported, and this really couldn't have been any clearer. Asserting otherwise is intellectually insulting.
I could even sympathize with not wanting to read scooter hate every time scooters come up, which I can definitely imagine to be a phenomenon, but then I would also appreciate not having to read people randomly soapboxing and projecting broad scale political alignments, so that's kind of a 1:1 unfortunately.
Um, sorry. If you've ever sat behind a poorly maintained vespa at a stop light, and in it's cloud of exhaust when it takes off, then you definitely don't think it's cool...
Same thing for old beetles and VW buses. Total smog creators.
Electric is where it's at.
Can the cool kids catch up?
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Thanks I hate it, extremely noisy and dirty. I really wish the brand dies with fossil fuels.
Thankfully all this stuff has been or is being killed by ebikes and escooters which are vastly better technology.
I hate to say it but good riddance! OK to keep as a classic icon for everything on the road but definitely not something that I would want to continue being popular.
Keep the body shell, modernize the internals. I think they have already done so...
There has been an electric vespa for quita a while: https://storeusa.vespa.com/elettrica/vespa-elettrica-45-mph....
At least in italy there's also a cheaper, not Vespa looking, ev piaggio, the piaggio one
Vespa has electric models now.
modern vespas are none of those things.
It's the coolest thing on 2 wheels only in CBC's imaginary world.