I'd avoid using overly opinionated code hosters that capriciously change their ToS to ban content that was allowed before without a very good reason. I'd like my code to survive long after I stop maintaining it, and such changes reduce my trust that a hoster will achieve that.
(This specific change wouldn't affect me, since all the code I published was written without AI)
I think this is a case where it's a net positive to have both. If Codeberg's opinionated mission isn't aligned with your personal approach to code, you definitely shouldn't host there, but it's genuinely hugely valuable that it exists for those who do share their vision. Both approaches can coexist & it seems net positive to have that diversity of services available.
In terms of the risk of data loss -notwithstanding that having any codehost as your sole storage location without backups seems unwise for anything you value - Codeberg's approach to handling ToS violations has to date been extremely personal & not overly automated, so it's reasonably safe to assume artifacts won't be deleted without appropriate notice.
> Well, guess I will take my repositories elsewhere.
When someone tells you "We cannot afford to support you anymore", do you also reply "Well, I'll take this burden to someone else who will be grateful to eat some cost in supporting me"?
I really want to, as soon as someone actually implements auth federation in a large system. Forgejo is making some steps, but... It's hard to self-host without making contributions really annoying.
For self hosting, you're either large enough for people to go where you are regardless of the system, or you're effectively giving up the changes of having a community.
I can already tell you - my email has always been out there. Over the last 2+ decades, I received 0 patches and 1 bug report across everything I released. And I really don't want to deal with a patch attachment. So no, I wouldn't say that's the way.
Codeberg is just a nice logo wrapped around Forgejo/Gitea.
I don't really see the appeal besides free hosting + some storage.
People should either self-host a gitea/forgejo/gogs server for like 3$ a month on hetzner or just use gitea.com.
If you want to share your repos, just use sharemygit.com and spread the repo on coding forums. Personally I find this a much better stimulant for a community, then just having free-flowing code spread around like dust under a bed.
+ you actually dont need to be the victim of the whims of some ideological git-server provider. Ahem github (master->main), codeberg (no private repos are allowed), gitlab (you have to pay) etc. etc.
> Codeberg is just a nice logo wrapped around Forgejo/Gitea.
Not true. Codeberg is first of all a downstream fork [0] of Forgejo, making adaptations for high-scale use. And it offers additional services that Forgejo does not offer. Then it has a full-blown non-profit organization around it that enables community participation. It is the presidium of the community members that decided on the new ToU.
Forgejo is a hard fork of Gitea with a GPLv3 license, instead of MIT. Codeberg used to be based on Gitea, but it no longer does for many years now.
Codeberg, gogs, gitea and forgejo are all mostly cross-compatible. Their apis are for the most part the same, differentiating them serves no purpose AT ALL besides for ideological purposes. Just because codeberg wants to be this saint of FOSS doesn't mean they are really contributing anything else than riding the works of the forgejo/gitea team/gogs.
Yes, forking is one of the beautiful things of open source. But again there is much more than just "riding the works" in the tight mutual relationship between Forgejo and Codeberg.
Private repos are allowed, although with some restrictions:
Private repositories are only allowed for things required for FLOSS projects, like storing secrets, team-internal discussions or hiding projects from the public until they're ready for usage and/or contribution. They are also allowed for really small & personal stuff like your journal, config files, ideas or notes, but explicitly not as a personal cloud or media storage.
This is reasonable: Codeberg is specifically set up to be a code host for open-source projects, not for closed-source commercial code.
Well that's the point isn't it? It's free and it's someone else's problem. That's what people actually want in reality. They don't want to be sysadmins.
This is a bit strange. Are they saying that Codeberg no longer accepts vibe coded projects at all?
If so, it seems kind of short sighted. Within a very short period of time all code will be AI code. What then?
And as the models improve, along with better code will come better bug fixing etc etc. So the quality of AI code will absolutely surpass that of human code. What then?
Will the repositories demand proof of programming ability? Why, when AI will be handling everything anyway. It would be rather like driving schools mandating that all drivers can strip an engine before they're allowed to drive? Very odd.
> So the quality of AI code will absolutely surpass that of human code. What then?
If they change their opinions in the future, they can reevaluate their stance and update their terms.
I love using LLMs for coding, but I think it's absolutely fine if people make different decisions. In fact, I think trying to maintain code repositories that are free of LLM-generated code is extremely valuable.
I don't understand the copyright issue. In many jurisdictions it's already established that AI produced content of any type attaches no copyright. The only copyright which is created comes from human manipulation of said AI content.
> If so, it seems kind of short sighted. Within a very short period of time all code will be AI code. What then?
Then you'll use one of the many, many providers who will host your code. Why is it so important to you that this specific provider has to host vibe-coded stuff when you can host it anywhere else? Is "rest of the world" not a big enough place for you?
Then all digital systems will be compromised and our civilization will collapse. Without internet and computers, we would all be living happy farmer lives.
> It would be rather like driving schools mandating that all drivers can strip an engine before they're allowed to drive?
It took decades of manufacturers ramping up reliability to the point that driving schools didn't teach you how to change spark plugs, oil swaps and how to change a tire on the road side. I did my license around 2010 in Germany and changing a tire plus how to check for oil and coolant levels was part of the curriculum.
And similarly, AI has to go through that "ripening" as well before it can be trusted. At the moment, there is no solution even found on how to prevent hallucinations or in-band signalling attacks, much less actually validated at scale.
It's not misinformation, just read their own page:
If you use more than 100 MB of private storage for the use cases mentioned earlier, please send us a request and we can evaluate it.
If you do not contribute to any free/libre software project at all, Codeberg is unfortunately not the right place for you. However, check out the alternatives, we're sure you'll find a cozy place for your work.
...in what way whatsoever is this "They dont allow private repos"?
The size limit is........a size limit, something every host should have; there's one for public codeberg repos too.
And while there are restrictions on what private repos are allowed, there are also restrictions on what public repos are allowed too, and it's extremely clear that neither requirement is equivalent to "they don't allow [public / private] repos".
My reading of that section is that, besides the size limit, the rules on private repos are, to an extent, less strict than of public repos; anyone who falls under your second quoted sentence couldn't have any public repos either, by the nature of public repos needing to be FOSS.
Great decision from Codeberg. I’m only becoming more and more happy with my decision to transition away from GitHub.
I'd avoid using overly opinionated code hosters that capriciously change their ToS to ban content that was allowed before without a very good reason. I'd like my code to survive long after I stop maintaining it, and such changes reduce my trust that a hoster will achieve that.
(This specific change wouldn't affect me, since all the code I published was written without AI)
I think this is a case where it's a net positive to have both. If Codeberg's opinionated mission isn't aligned with your personal approach to code, you definitely shouldn't host there, but it's genuinely hugely valuable that it exists for those who do share their vision. Both approaches can coexist & it seems net positive to have that diversity of services available.
In terms of the risk of data loss -notwithstanding that having any codehost as your sole storage location without backups seems unwise for anything you value - Codeberg's approach to handling ToS violations has to date been extremely personal & not overly automated, so it's reasonably safe to assume artifacts won't be deleted without appropriate notice.
Technically, depending on how "share" is to be interpreted, this addition does not retroactively make existing projects infringing.
It doesn't matter whether you technically infringe or not, that's irrelevant. It matters whether Codeberg bans your account.
Well, guess I will take my repositories elsewhere.
> Well, guess I will take my repositories elsewhere.
When someone tells you "We cannot afford to support you anymore", do you also reply "Well, I'll take this burden to someone else who will be grateful to eat some cost in supporting me"?
Yes? Are you complaining people consume free services? Weird.
Everything seems to be working out fine then tbh :D
Thank you for respecting the new ToU.
Oh no, anyway...
Self-host ahem. Do it.
I really want to, as soon as someone actually implements auth federation in a large system. Forgejo is making some steps, but... It's hard to self-host without making contributions really annoying.
For self hosting, you're either large enough for people to go where you are regardless of the system, or you're effectively giving up the changes of having a community.
How about accepting bug reports and patches by email? You could make this an experiment and tell us how it went.
I can already tell you - my email has always been out there. Over the last 2+ decades, I received 0 patches and 1 bug report across everything I released. And I really don't want to deal with a patch attachment. So no, I wouldn't say that's the way.
How many did you receive on other channels?
Lots.
Interesting. I wonder if the other channel was closed and pointed to your email, how many it would get.
I think at this point any attempt to prevent it will fail. AI code is almost everywhere, even in projects that were against it 6 months ago.
> I think at this point any attempt to prevent it will fail. AI code is almost everywhere, even in projects that were against it 6 months ago.
That makes the remaining human-only communities even more valuable.
It isn't a network firewall. It's saying if you're caught doing this, you'll be banned.
This is not about preventing anything.
It's on their Terms of Use. If you violate it, they will delete your account.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003386
Recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003386
(2h ago, 89 points, 145 comments)
Thank you so much codeberg for supporting
Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003386
Hahaha.
Codeberg is just a nice logo wrapped around Forgejo/Gitea.
I don't really see the appeal besides free hosting + some storage.
People should either self-host a gitea/forgejo/gogs server for like 3$ a month on hetzner or just use gitea.com.
If you want to share your repos, just use sharemygit.com and spread the repo on coding forums. Personally I find this a much better stimulant for a community, then just having free-flowing code spread around like dust under a bed.
+ you actually dont need to be the victim of the whims of some ideological git-server provider. Ahem github (master->main), codeberg (no private repos are allowed), gitlab (you have to pay) etc. etc.
> Codeberg is just a nice logo wrapped around Forgejo/Gitea.
Not true. Codeberg is first of all a downstream fork [0] of Forgejo, making adaptations for high-scale use. And it offers additional services that Forgejo does not offer. Then it has a full-blown non-profit organization around it that enables community participation. It is the presidium of the community members that decided on the new ToU.
Forgejo is a hard fork of Gitea with a GPLv3 license, instead of MIT. Codeberg used to be based on Gitea, but it no longer does for many years now.
[0] https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-Infrastructure/forgejo
Codeberg, gogs, gitea and forgejo are all mostly cross-compatible. Their apis are for the most part the same, differentiating them serves no purpose AT ALL besides for ideological purposes. Just because codeberg wants to be this saint of FOSS doesn't mean they are really contributing anything else than riding the works of the forgejo/gitea team/gogs.
Yes, forking is one of the beautiful things of open source. But again there is much more than just "riding the works" in the tight mutual relationship between Forgejo and Codeberg.
Private repos are allowed, although with some restrictions:
Private repositories are only allowed for things required for FLOSS projects, like storing secrets, team-internal discussions or hiding projects from the public until they're ready for usage and/or contribution. They are also allowed for really small & personal stuff like your journal, config files, ideas or notes, but explicitly not as a personal cloud or media storage.
This is reasonable: Codeberg is specifically set up to be a code host for open-source projects, not for closed-source commercial code.
Codeberg launched forgejo and are the ones behind it.
Well that's the point isn't it? It's free and it's someone else's problem. That's what people actually want in reality. They don't want to be sysadmins.
[flagged]
Codeberg is a German non-profit. If you're going to be hyperbolic, at least get it somewhat right.
Beautiful way to combine a slippery slope argument with a strawman
2030: By popular demand, we will accept code contributions received via a fax machine.
I wonder why the sibling is dead — fax is still quite necessary in German govt and health care!
I wonder if anyone has already written a git over fax extension.
[dead]
2030: scan your asshole to make a commit so we know you're a human.
This is a bit strange. Are they saying that Codeberg no longer accepts vibe coded projects at all?
If so, it seems kind of short sighted. Within a very short period of time all code will be AI code. What then?
And as the models improve, along with better code will come better bug fixing etc etc. So the quality of AI code will absolutely surpass that of human code. What then?
Will the repositories demand proof of programming ability? Why, when AI will be handling everything anyway. It would be rather like driving schools mandating that all drivers can strip an engine before they're allowed to drive? Very odd.
> So the quality of AI code will absolutely surpass that of human code. What then?
If they change their opinions in the future, they can reevaluate their stance and update their terms.
I love using LLMs for coding, but I think it's absolutely fine if people make different decisions. In fact, I think trying to maintain code repositories that are free of LLM-generated code is extremely valuable.
The terms in question don't even mention quality issues. The argument is about the unclear copyright status of generated code. Also malware risk.
I don't understand the copyright issue. In many jurisdictions it's already established that AI produced content of any type attaches no copyright. The only copyright which is created comes from human manipulation of said AI content.
> If so, it seems kind of short sighted. Within a very short period of time all code will be AI code. What then?
Then you'll use one of the many, many providers who will host your code. Why is it so important to you that this specific provider has to host vibe-coded stuff when you can host it anywhere else? Is "rest of the world" not a big enough place for you?
Mainly ethical, EU and open source reasons.
Codeberg is for free software.
Yes, exactly, that's why I like it.
> What then?
Then all digital systems will be compromised and our civilization will collapse. Without internet and computers, we would all be living happy farmer lives.
Joy.
> It would be rather like driving schools mandating that all drivers can strip an engine before they're allowed to drive?
It took decades of manufacturers ramping up reliability to the point that driving schools didn't teach you how to change spark plugs, oil swaps and how to change a tire on the road side. I did my license around 2010 in Germany and changing a tire plus how to check for oil and coolant levels was part of the curriculum.
And similarly, AI has to go through that "ripening" as well before it can be trusted. At the moment, there is no solution even found on how to prevent hallucinations or in-band signalling attacks, much less actually validated at scale.
> So the quality of AI code will absolutely surpass that of human code.
This is unfounded speculation, presented as inevitable fact.
Seems pretty inevitable to me. I already don’t trust myself to write code without it being reviewed by AI . It always finds something wrong!
> I already don’t trust myself to write code without it being reviewed by AI .
I agree, skills atrophy is a real thing!
(It's a joke, relax... :-))
Nobody here is complaining about using an LLM as a linter.
Some may have concerns about energy use. But that's not Codeberg's problem.
Sure, but seems again is a subjective qualifier. It's not the same as presenting something as objective fact.
They dont allow private repos, why would they allow vibe-coded stuff. They're a quite opinioninated company
They are a non profit, not a company and you can have private repos. You are spreading misinformation.
Dude, just read the TOS, jesus: https://docs.codeberg.org/getting-started/faq/#how-about-pri...
It's not misinformation, just read their own page:
If you use more than 100 MB of private storage for the use cases mentioned earlier, please send us a request and we can evaluate it.
If you do not contribute to any free/libre software project at all, Codeberg is unfortunately not the right place for you. However, check out the alternatives, we're sure you'll find a cozy place for your work.
...in what way whatsoever is this "They dont allow private repos"?
The size limit is........a size limit, something every host should have; there's one for public codeberg repos too.
And while there are restrictions on what private repos are allowed, there are also restrictions on what public repos are allowed too, and it's extremely clear that neither requirement is equivalent to "they don't allow [public / private] repos".
My reading of that section is that, besides the size limit, the rules on private repos are, to an extent, less strict than of public repos; anyone who falls under your second quoted sentence couldn't have any public repos either, by the nature of public repos needing to be FOSS.