I used to travel to the U.S. every year or two for this or that and I always left thinking about just how stressed out I'd be if I had to live there. There's a sense of having to have your "guard up" so much. That someone or something is always out to screw you. That you need gates on your communities. That your kids' school is going to get shot up. That cops might be the enemy. That you'll depend on someone in a moment of vulnerability and you'll be part of the wrong tribe. That you're a medical event away from financial catastrophe. That even when you have medical insurance, they're trying to screw you. That healthcare is tied to employment. That your government really wants to !@#$ you and your civic duty is becoming a full-time job.
I think it's possible that a lot of this is subjective personal bias, and people may tell me it's not actually that bad. But I also wonder if the people who have to live their lives in it long term are just used to it. And if they were to step outside of it for long enough like this blogger, they might detox from the stress.
I think what I do know for sure is that "it's like this everywhere" feels certainly wrong. Everywhere is different and I don't accept that every single form of different is equal. There are better and worse versions of different.
[N] That you need gates on your communities.
[Y] That your kids' school is going to get shot up.
[Y] That cops might be the enemy.
[N] You'll be part of the wrong tribe.
[N] Medical event away from financial catastrophe.
[Y] Medical insurance, they're trying to screw you.
[Y] That healthcare is tied to employment.
[N] That your government really wants to !@#$ you.
This is my personal opinion as someone who grew up in rural Texas and moved to the big cities. Some anecdotes: Schools participate in "active shooter training". The cops came to my son's high school and gave the "talk"; say "lawyer" -- comply and don't get killed -- tell the judge you were under duress. Racism and discrimination is present; but living in the big cities I don't think it is as prevalent. Medical care in the US is a cruel joke where people are indebted to doctors and hospitals and you are expected to die broke at the end of your life.
I think that is a cause: if you are gated off in a secure area, you care less about the safety of wider society. You will want to spend less on the police etc.
> That your kids' school is going to get shot up.
its really not that likely. A kid in the US is far more likely to die on the way to school than get shot at school, but the former is a fear people have adjusted to.
The medical insurance tied to your job is weird and scary.
>> That your kids' school is going to get shot up.
> its really not that likely. A kid in the US is far more likely to die on the way to school than get shot at school, but the former is a fear people have adjusted to.
True, it's just _so much_ more likely compared to other countries, to the point of it's not really on the radar day-to-day.
Child/teen cause of death stats https://www.kff.org/mental-health/child-and-teen-firearm-mor... call out Canada as #2 for firearm mortality in general. We've had 29 school shootings (including universities, and including "a gun was discharged in a stairwell") since 2000, with 31 fatalities.
USA is 327 with 197 dead since 2020. And yes, that's with almost 9x the population, but per capita it's still a wild outlier of a stat.
I have had bouts of strong desire to move to the US, but I can't get past the uncomfortable feeling that you need to constantly have your back up. Unless you're super-wealthy, it just seems a hard place to exist.
Nearly everything you said is inaccurate for the vast majority of the US, and it's obvious you have projected a lot of vaguely accurate online news reports across the nation as a whole.
Ontario -> DFW a bunch, San Diego, Bay Area, NYC, Boston, Buffalo, Nashville, Orlando, Atlanta, Numerous rural nowheres in Wisconsin (it's a long story), DC. Just what comes to the top of my head that I've visited as an adult for longer than a week.
Admittedly I haven't been in a few years. Maybe things have been getting much better there!
> Every time I leave the US, I’m always struck by how happy other people seem to be.
Every time I visit a place I get the impression that people are happier, but it's just an impression based on something you notice and experience for a very short amount of time. You'll see happy and desperate people anywhere, I don't think it has to do with the place.
> Actually, I think I say that about everywhere I travel.
I haven't always seen this to be true. Take Hawaii for example, a few of the islands over the past 10 years seemed like they truly hated tourists. Service and behavior indicated this. Noted, this is in the USA, so that might account for some of it.
Mexico on the other hand generally likes to take care of tourists.
Economic downtimes, COVID, fires, etc. affected Hawaii. There was a noticeable uptake in friendliness because their economy relies on tourism. I have no idea in the last 2 years if they have gone back to hating tourists.
I try not to make any judgement about people, their life and other things based on a few days or at most a few weeks of travel in that place. It is tempting to say things based on a very limited experience on a very limited people in a very limited place.
I can sympathize with the viewpoint in the article. Indeed, I agree with many of the points of the article.
But also, when I didn't speak Spanish very well, Spain felt magical and whimsical and all the people seemed so happy. A few years later I came back and spoke Spanish at a much higher level (pretty easy to improve when your initial level of capability was counting to 100 and ordering beer) and noticed that the situation was much more nuanced. I'd over hear the same sorts of conversations I'd hear at home.
I think the phenomenon you mention is definitely real, but equally it is true that there are simply places where there are higher proportions of happy to sad people, borne variously of climate, socioeconomic context, culture, social fabric, political histories etc. To avoid the truth that some environments yield happier people is to be needlessly defensive and disingenuous IMO. FWIW -- my bias -- I find America to be a sadder place to be, on various subjectives. It is individualistic just as the author alludes to; the normative fabric does not invite communal multi-generational wellbeing nor filial duties or general actionable concern for fellow person. Compared to my experiences in Bangkok, Beijing, Oslo, even London, there is simply a better structure for welfare communally without everything needing to be a capitalistic fever dream. That said, there is _absolutely_ stark contrasts between Austin, Boulder, SF, NY. The US is a gloriously massive place with such diversity, but its economic and political reality does its people and communities a disservice.
I'm living in Thailand, the self-declared Land of Smiles, and ... it's not very smiley.
I visit Japan, which social media seems to say is a terrible place to work and make friends, and it strikes me as much more friendly and outgoing. Same when I'm in the States, where I find it far easier to strike up a random conversation and enjoy the nods on the sidewalk.
Somehow I think the core differences is wherever you spend the most time, the gilding wears off and there's a core discontent underneath everything everywhere if you stay long enough.
I think this was where "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" comes from.
My perpetually-single friend is always complaining that there "aren't any good single women" in his area. When he visits other places, he inevitably reports on how much nicer and prettier the women are there.
I wonder if the author would feel different about a place he was visiting if he stayed there for a few years.
There's also the concept that "familiarity breeds contempt" and there seems to be some evidence to support this.
I disagree to the maximum extent possible. I have lived in 6 countries. Americans to me are by far most friendly and supportive of new ideas.
When you are visiting a place, you see it with rosy eyes. You are not forced to deal with the day to day difficulties of life, the commute, the commitments, the finances, the outrage about politics and so on. So, comparing the harsh reality of 'back home' against an environment where you don't have to deal with those is going to obviously come out different. When you live in a country for a while, only then the so-called 'bitterness' catches up to you.
Completely agree. I've lived - as in truly "lived", having a job, staying at least a full year, and having to do "real life things" - in 3 different countries before coming to the US and Americans are exactly like you said.
I always have to laugh at people who form an opinion on other countries based on their "2 week vacation" there.
FWIW - In the past, I worked for a worldwide company. Offices all over the world.
The European offices genuinely worked well together. They seemed to operate with the understanding they are were all on the same team and the success of their office depended on each other.
The USA office and remote USA employees all operated as every man for themselves. There was no natural team or working together feeling. It was 100% everyone for themselves, which directly resonates with the OP article.
About 30% are happy with a Nazi takeover of government with the stated goal of a whiter government and deportation and concentration camps. About 50% are ok with the idea of it if gas and groceries weren't so expensive. 65% if you specifically ask white men.
Many of the rest of us are aware of this and worried we won't be allowed to vote our way out of it. If that ends up being the case millions of us might die.
Of the 50% of us who didn't vote for this the overwhelming majority are cowards who won't do anything.
We aren't good people collectively. We are in a word garbage.
The article doesn’t mention moving to another country, working a local job and enjoying it.
America is absolutely great if you get lucky and want to make a ton of money. I messed up, I didn’t do well on my Amazon or Meta interviews. But say I did 6 or 7 years ago.
Assuming I survived long enough for the 4 year vesting period I’d already have enough to retire. The world is full of safer and cheaper places,
No other country really offers this opportunity. My own career, dropping out of college and coding Unity games until I magically had a 6 figure career , is largely an American dream.
On the flip side, in almost every other developed country people don’t choose between medicine and rent.
Let’s say you have a chronic , but manageable health condition and a great job. You get fired in May, your wife files for divorce in September and you can be homeless by Christmas.
Now you’re in a shelter without the basic medic treatment you need.
Somehow it’s your fault. Tariffs destroyed your employers business, your fault.
If a bank needs a bailout golly gosh no expense shall be spared. A peasant can’t make rent this month, should have worked harder.
Combined with the prosperity gospel and if you suffer on the streets it means you made God angry or something. An infinite all powerful being and he’s upset you ate meat on the wrong day.
To be honest I dream of moving to a country where senseless stupid violence isn’t the norm. Maybe I’d have a kid and tell him that America is basically Disneyland if the rides occasionally derailed.
It wouldn't, because the vast majority of people whining about how terrible the US is and how great it is elsewhere aren't welcome elsewhere because they aren't a net benefit to their community.
We can fix it with leadership and mentoring younger people. I'm trying to do this every single day. I love the spirit of people. I love the United States and what it has given me and my family growing up. You can project positive change and it doesn't have to be such a dark place. Look around you at the beauty. Be the change for the world and ultimately yourself.
If your only experience with other countries are 2-3 week vacations then yes, those people will always be exceedingly kind to you. They are more than happy to be kind to you since A, you will be leaving soon and B, you are paying a good chunk of $$$ to be there.
The fact the author was able to take a multiple day vacation to several top Mexican resorts is exceedingly ironic. The meals he ate and the resorts he stayed at are probably on accessible to 10% of the entire Mexican population. Those around him made around $750 USD per month. A night at any of those resorts probably runs around that amount.
If you visit a small town in the USA and stay in a nice bed and breakfast, you will find the country has the same quaint charm as several places abroad.
> Every time I leave the US, I’m always struck by how happy other people seem to be.
Seems more than a little rose-tinted. I live in the UK and I can certify that there is a lot of misery here. Overloaded NHS, lack of housing, the Byzantine benefits and tax structures, lack of good jobs, etc.
Personally, I like living in the UK, despite all, but I also liked working in the US last time I did in the 1990s. Things have (obviously, Trumpism etc.) changed there, I guess.
It's so interesting how I feel the same way about where I live now... and even more interesting that every time I visit the US, people seem happier there than anywhere I've been before.
There is a whole genre of videos on YouTube where Europeans in the U.S. for the World Cup rave about how happy and friendly the locals are. Click on one and your feed fills up with them. These mostly start with saying that this is in rural America, away from the big cities. As a rural American that is my impression too. The people I bump into at the local one-horse town gas station are routinely more open and friendly than the ones in Albuquerque.
The author is comparing the locals to people in Baja California. Based on the above I'll predict that his locals are urban.
> These mostly start with saying that this is in rural America, away from the big cities.
I'm not sure I follow here. Which rural parts of the US are home to stadiums, let alone big enough to host the World Cup? A cursory search shows we hosted in Seattle, SF, Boston, NYC, LA, Miami, Dallas, etc., which are our biggest and most prosperous cities.
There are plenty of friendly, happy people in American cities.
I'm American but moved to Europe years ago where I am definitely happier. I like the superstitious idea that the American continent is cursed from the deaths of 55 million native Americans since the discovery of the western hemisphere. I mean, I do t believe it but it does make a good story.
Sure, horrible things happened. But a big part of those deaths was the new diseases that people had no developed immunity to. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
Well, for one, the world changes around us in ways that necessitate innovation. But even if it didn't, if life can be better, why wouldn't you want that?
I never said it's wrong to want life to be better. Life is life. If someone finds enjoyment in a different way or pace of life, that's fine. The world's gonna do what the world's gonna do - some people want to be at the forefront, while others want to go with the flow or chill out.
Who is "we"? What of the people who are already very comfortable and happy living humble lives without keeping up with the current cutting edge of technology? The person content to sit on the shore and fish at a slow pace? To wander off into the woods and read a book for a few days?
Must they "accelerate" and "keep up"? Do they truly suffer if they don't? If they're happy doing so now, will they be unhappy in the future if they continue down their chosen paths?
I agree with the need for an empirical reality check, but have grown really skeptical about these kinds of cohort-level well-being measures.
I wouldn't say they're meaningless, but there's a lot of studies suggesting they don't really change much over time, and my sense is they don't change in tandem with events that should change well-being, except in extremes like widespread genocidal war.
There's even researchers who have kind of taken them seriously to suggest that people have social cognitive biases about the past, and societal changes. I respect them and think what they're suggesting is reasonable (in the sense that they're taking the measures seriously) but the other way of looking at it is to flip it around and raise the possibility that the aggregation-level measurement isn't tracking what we want it to.
I admit I don't have an alternative, and don't think they're worthless per se, I just feel like (as someone who does vaguely related research) like they're tracking something more akin to perceptual sets or world schemas than psychosocial functioning.
I guess at some level I always have the "everything is fine" dog meme in the back of my mind when I see these kinds of well-being or mood analyses.
As someone who does _very_ related research, I'd push back on your skepticism.
I recommend Gilbert's "Stumbling on Happiness". It very accessibly addresses almost every point you raised.
In particular, people have very bad intuitions about trauma and loss. Humans are shockingly adaptable and bounce back to full functioning and happiness almost all of the time. Provided you don't have a biased sample (such as people seeking care) this is equally apparent when talking to victims of trauma as when doing empirical research.
I'm aware of the research on trauma and posttraumatic growth (and have worked with such patients).
What I'm referring to are correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states.
There's a kind of disconnect in that on the one hand, you end up with these models of why disruptive political change happens — because people are deeply dissatisfied and having trouble making ends meet and so forth (cf the price of eggs etc) — but then on the other, end up concluding that well-being is inelastic to external events. So which is it?
Maybe it has nothing to do with aggregate level measurement? Even the trauma example is sort of telling: someone can end up being deeply impacted and their reported well-being remains the same (or even increases), but that story is very oversimplified at some level.
Sometimes I feel as if this line of reasoning leads to absurdities, like there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being. I'm being provocative on purpose to make a point — I don't think anyone really thinks that — but at some point you have to wrestle with the implications of what is being said, and at that point it kind of starts to become internally inconsistent.
> there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being
I know it's just a throwaway example, but this statement isn't internally inconsistent. Traumatic harm hurts people now, it doesn't need to permanently harm them to be considered immoral.
A very similar knee-jerk often occurs when you people learn that parenting has very, very little effect on long-term psychological outcomes for children compared to genetics. But "parenting doesn't matter" is illogical for the same reason. "We may not hold their tomorrows in our hands but we surely hold their todays" - Judith Rich Harris
> correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states
Ecological mismatches in trauma harms is what I study, so I'll take the opportunity to shamelessly plug some of my and others' research, maybe you'll find it interesting.
Well, you went to one of the most beautiful places on the planet. I wouldn't want to leave either.
On a more substantial comment, people seem much more happy in appearance and on specific moments than what they actually are. The grass is always greener on the other side, etc. The solution is and has always been to try to be satisfied (not happy) with what you have wherever you are.
>We don’t care for our children, our elderly, or our communities.
This is truly an issue and imo it has reached unprecedented lows.
What nonsense. Of course, everything always looks so great when you're on vacation. Living somewhere full time and visiting for a few weeks is not the same.
There are plenty of kind, generous, happy people in the US. Wasn't there a gazillion memes about it during the World Cup?
This reads like twitter-level rage bait seriously.
Your "argument" is extremely simplistic, and again has virtually nothing to do with capitalism.
Also, many homeless people are content, along with those in jails and small children (whether they are well cared for or not in many cases unfortunately). It's not a remotely good metric for anything other than how agreeable a person is and how low their expectations are.
Its excuses. American capitalism/society gives us endless excuses for why our individual excess and waste is justified because someone else does it too. Then we get more excuses to blame the rich, the poor, the immigrants, the foreigners, the Jews, the Muslims, the africans, etc.
At the end of the day, a lot of Americans say they are one person while their actions prove otherwise. This creates a lot of shame, self hatred, confusion, anxiety, etc. The way Americans self describe vs who their actions say they are is vastly different. Then we blame the rich, the poor, the immigrants, the deep state, foreigners, etc.
"I love the environment" as we vote for a oil baron. "I love animals" as we shove more beef and dairy into our mouths and buy a 3rd chihuahua that poos/pees on pee pads cuz someone can't be bothered to let it out. I'd be confused about who I am if I said one thing and did another.
In modern America the individual can do no wrong. It is always someone elses fault. There is always a scapegoat to let us off the hook. DID YOU KNOW OIL COMPANIES MADE MO MONEY? Keep driving that SUV and buying beef watered in the desert.
You can count on Americans to do the right thing, after we've tried everything else and run out of excuses.
Americans are, according to our own logic, the most beautifully gifted society to ever exist while simultaneously being the biggest victims ever.
The sad part? We all know it and refuse to acknowledge or do anything about it. Its just easier to blame someone else, such as datacenters, or be a victim at the mercy of billionaires, while I get my $7 starbucks mocha. I'm sad, I'll get 2 mochas.
A good example is how people do things in really weird/inefficient ways, such as hand washing dishes or time drying their laundry, despite there being a dishwasher and moisture settings. If this is pointed out, the reaction is often emotional offense followed by "Don't tell me what to do!" Denial. Americans use their uniqueness to justify their excess. We get offended to avoid taking personal responsibility for our actions. Brb I'm ordering the latest funco doll cuz I neeeeeeeeed it.
Americans live simultaneously under Manifest Destiny and being slaves. It's wild. We are the greatest and the most victimized people to ever exist, in our words.
Sebastian Major from the podcast Our Fake History recently said that Americans are masters at branding. That's another way of saying we're masters at lying. To ourselves and others.
*obviously these are generalizations and most people will disagree with me. I'm not wrong. Start to look for it, especially in yourself. You'll see it on both sides of the political spectrum in various forms. It's entitlement all around. Look for it when liberals say "give em a break, life is hard" (excess disguised as compassion) as a person consumes 3x more than is reasonable. Look for it when conservatives say "God blessed this country and the Muslims are invading" as they open up pristine wilderness to resource extraction. They're not much different.
American culture was, quite literally, built on these ideals. This isn't a question of "Do I do this?" If you grew up in the USA you do this to some degree. If you disagree, congrats you're doing it. The question is how much responsibility are you going to take? What excuses are you going to employ? How honest are you going to be?
Powell reservoir (Lake Powell) is about to dry up. How many more burgers and steak are we gonna shove down our faces so we can feel that pride of a steak dinner? How much butter are we gonna slab on our plate as the western US grasslands burn unnaturally thanks to cattle grazing? Nevermind, it's the billionaires fault. Sorry I offended. I'm gonna go like some social media posts that are anti-AI cuz it'll make me feel like I accomplished something without actually sacrificing my excess. I could go without beef or I could complain about AI..... Eh I'll complain about AI, it's easier. I'm also on the carnivore diet cuz self-care trumps the environment and I need 230g of protein a day. (Excess disguised as self care/health.).
A far less compelling narrative is to handwave it away as "it's not really the system." The hyper-competition that capitalism breeds (for relatively little benefit) is the moral bane. More specifically, the recent history of touting capitalism while demonizing socialism has caused this shift, as opposed to the era of the New Deal, when social safety nets and public works were promoted as a net good. While there is a bill to pay for some programs (such as Social Security), the broader approach has largely been vindicated. Capitalism has produced severe wealth inequality, benefiting only a select few and breeding blatant corruption.
Not to defend the down votes, but it's not just one thing. The article praises the attitudes of Mexicans and French folk, both of which are also capitalist countries.
It's capitalism to an extent, sure, but it's also the culture of a country.
There are few, if any, countries which have taken capitalism to the same extremes the US has. The concept of a country which is so at the mercy of capitalists that people will beg you not to call an ambulance for them when they’re injured is incredibly foreign to me despite living in the UK, a country renowned for its financial sector.
Which I guess is to say yes, it is the culture of a country, and the culture of the US strikes me as money above all else.
I have no idea why people blame capitalism for things like a lack of socialized medicine (which I support for the record).
It's the American emphasis on individual freedom that results in a lack of government mandates for healthcare. Nearly everyone has healthcare, adding the small percentage who don't to the existing government-run system would not be a major financial burden, and cases like the one you cited are effectively (but not literally) zero.
Historically, there's been a tug of war between people who feel like you should be able to take the chance of financial ruin over an unlikely event and those who think the state should be protecting those people from themselves, leading to the disaster of a system we have currently. That's pretty much the explanation.
Well, the "fat" part is true, the US is #2 in obesity among developed countries. In many education metrics we are average or below average compared to the OECD countries (despite spending more than others) - let's round it out to "average". The others are less measurable.
tertiary education is just one metric. And yes Mexico is #1 obesity but that doesn't mean that the US being #2 is good. We are horribly overweight compared to Europe and Asia.
OP's shining example of Mexico is essentially as obese[0], and far less educated[1] than Americans on average. It's embarrassing to be this blind to the state of things when you have the resources to check your opinions for accuracy.
I used to travel to the U.S. every year or two for this or that and I always left thinking about just how stressed out I'd be if I had to live there. There's a sense of having to have your "guard up" so much. That someone or something is always out to screw you. That you need gates on your communities. That your kids' school is going to get shot up. That cops might be the enemy. That you'll depend on someone in a moment of vulnerability and you'll be part of the wrong tribe. That you're a medical event away from financial catastrophe. That even when you have medical insurance, they're trying to screw you. That healthcare is tied to employment. That your government really wants to !@#$ you and your civic duty is becoming a full-time job.
I think it's possible that a lot of this is subjective personal bias, and people may tell me it's not actually that bad. But I also wonder if the people who have to live their lives in it long term are just used to it. And if they were to step outside of it for long enough like this blogger, they might detox from the stress.
I think what I do know for sure is that "it's like this everywhere" feels certainly wrong. Everywhere is different and I don't accept that every single form of different is equal. There are better and worse versions of different.
As a Texan and a sample of size of 1.
This is my personal opinion as someone who grew up in rural Texas and moved to the big cities. Some anecdotes: Schools participate in "active shooter training". The cops came to my son's high school and gave the "talk"; say "lawyer" -- comply and don't get killed -- tell the judge you were under duress. Racism and discrimination is present; but living in the big cities I don't think it is as prevalent. Medical care in the US is a cruel joke where people are indebted to doctors and hospitals and you are expected to die broke at the end of your life.> you need gates on your communities
I think that is a cause: if you are gated off in a secure area, you care less about the safety of wider society. You will want to spend less on the police etc.
> That your kids' school is going to get shot up.
its really not that likely. A kid in the US is far more likely to die on the way to school than get shot at school, but the former is a fear people have adjusted to.
The medical insurance tied to your job is weird and scary.
>> That your kids' school is going to get shot up.
> its really not that likely. A kid in the US is far more likely to die on the way to school than get shot at school, but the former is a fear people have adjusted to.
True, it's just _so much_ more likely compared to other countries, to the point of it's not really on the radar day-to-day.
Child/teen cause of death stats https://www.kff.org/mental-health/child-and-teen-firearm-mor... call out Canada as #2 for firearm mortality in general. We've had 29 school shootings (including universities, and including "a gun was discharged in a stairwell") since 2000, with 31 fatalities.
USA is 327 with 197 dead since 2020. And yes, that's with almost 9x the population, but per capita it's still a wild outlier of a stat.
I have had bouts of strong desire to move to the US, but I can't get past the uncomfortable feeling that you need to constantly have your back up. Unless you're super-wealthy, it just seems a hard place to exist.
Where are you from, and where are you visiting?
Nearly everything you said is inaccurate for the vast majority of the US, and it's obvious you have projected a lot of vaguely accurate online news reports across the nation as a whole.
Ontario -> DFW a bunch, San Diego, Bay Area, NYC, Boston, Buffalo, Nashville, Orlando, Atlanta, Numerous rural nowheres in Wisconsin (it's a long story), DC. Just what comes to the top of my head that I've visited as an adult for longer than a week.
Admittedly I haven't been in a few years. Maybe things have been getting much better there!
It's odd that you've spent so much time in the US and have no idea what life is like here, but feel free to hold whatever opinion you like.
> Every time I leave the US, I’m always struck by how happy other people seem to be.
Every time I visit a place I get the impression that people are happier, but it's just an impression based on something you notice and experience for a very short amount of time. You'll see happy and desperate people anywhere, I don't think it has to do with the place.
> Actually, I think I say that about everywhere I travel.
That's it.
Truly fascinating how when you're a tourist in a place that survives off of tourism, you get treated nicely.
I haven't always seen this to be true. Take Hawaii for example, a few of the islands over the past 10 years seemed like they truly hated tourists. Service and behavior indicated this. Noted, this is in the USA, so that might account for some of it.
Mexico on the other hand generally likes to take care of tourists.
Economic downtimes, COVID, fires, etc. affected Hawaii. There was a noticeable uptake in friendliness because their economy relies on tourism. I have no idea in the last 2 years if they have gone back to hating tourists.
not true for Paris or Prague :) but I guess they don't "survive" off of tourism, more people will come anyway.
Just one of those great mysteries of life.
I try not to make any judgement about people, their life and other things based on a few days or at most a few weeks of travel in that place. It is tempting to say things based on a very limited experience on a very limited people in a very limited place.
I can sympathize with the viewpoint in the article. Indeed, I agree with many of the points of the article.
But also, when I didn't speak Spanish very well, Spain felt magical and whimsical and all the people seemed so happy. A few years later I came back and spoke Spanish at a much higher level (pretty easy to improve when your initial level of capability was counting to 100 and ordering beer) and noticed that the situation was much more nuanced. I'd over hear the same sorts of conversations I'd hear at home.
I think the phenomenon you mention is definitely real, but equally it is true that there are simply places where there are higher proportions of happy to sad people, borne variously of climate, socioeconomic context, culture, social fabric, political histories etc. To avoid the truth that some environments yield happier people is to be needlessly defensive and disingenuous IMO. FWIW -- my bias -- I find America to be a sadder place to be, on various subjectives. It is individualistic just as the author alludes to; the normative fabric does not invite communal multi-generational wellbeing nor filial duties or general actionable concern for fellow person. Compared to my experiences in Bangkok, Beijing, Oslo, even London, there is simply a better structure for welfare communally without everything needing to be a capitalistic fever dream. That said, there is _absolutely_ stark contrasts between Austin, Boulder, SF, NY. The US is a gloriously massive place with such diversity, but its economic and political reality does its people and communities a disservice.
It's a subjective measure each way, to be sure, and really applies to the the coasts. If you want to see it that way, no one can correct you.
But as an American who has spent decades living in Europe (across five different countries), I'm confident that this isn't just a mistaken impression.
I'm living in Thailand, the self-declared Land of Smiles, and ... it's not very smiley.
I visit Japan, which social media seems to say is a terrible place to work and make friends, and it strikes me as much more friendly and outgoing. Same when I'm in the States, where I find it far easier to strike up a random conversation and enjoy the nods on the sidewalk.
Somehow I think the core differences is wherever you spend the most time, the gilding wears off and there's a core discontent underneath everything everywhere if you stay long enough.
In 1 A.D., Roman poet Ovid wrote:
https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/ArtofLoveBkI...I think this was where "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" comes from.
My perpetually-single friend is always complaining that there "aren't any good single women" in his area. When he visits other places, he inevitably reports on how much nicer and prettier the women are there.
I wonder if the author would feel different about a place he was visiting if he stayed there for a few years.
There's also the concept that "familiarity breeds contempt" and there seems to be some evidence to support this.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2006-23056-008
I disagree to the maximum extent possible. I have lived in 6 countries. Americans to me are by far most friendly and supportive of new ideas.
When you are visiting a place, you see it with rosy eyes. You are not forced to deal with the day to day difficulties of life, the commute, the commitments, the finances, the outrage about politics and so on. So, comparing the harsh reality of 'back home' against an environment where you don't have to deal with those is going to obviously come out different. When you live in a country for a while, only then the so-called 'bitterness' catches up to you.
Completely agree. I've lived - as in truly "lived", having a job, staying at least a full year, and having to do "real life things" - in 3 different countries before coming to the US and Americans are exactly like you said.
I always have to laugh at people who form an opinion on other countries based on their "2 week vacation" there.
FWIW - In the past, I worked for a worldwide company. Offices all over the world.
The European offices genuinely worked well together. They seemed to operate with the understanding they are were all on the same team and the success of their office depended on each other.
The USA office and remote USA employees all operated as every man for themselves. There was no natural team or working together feeling. It was 100% everyone for themselves, which directly resonates with the OP article.
There are millions of happy, good people in America. Grass is always greener. You see novelty when you travel.
About 30% are happy with a Nazi takeover of government with the stated goal of a whiter government and deportation and concentration camps. About 50% are ok with the idea of it if gas and groceries weren't so expensive. 65% if you specifically ask white men.
Many of the rest of us are aware of this and worried we won't be allowed to vote our way out of it. If that ends up being the case millions of us might die.
Of the 50% of us who didn't vote for this the overwhelming majority are cowards who won't do anything.
We aren't good people collectively. We are in a word garbage.
It’s not black and white.
The article doesn’t mention moving to another country, working a local job and enjoying it.
America is absolutely great if you get lucky and want to make a ton of money. I messed up, I didn’t do well on my Amazon or Meta interviews. But say I did 6 or 7 years ago.
Assuming I survived long enough for the 4 year vesting period I’d already have enough to retire. The world is full of safer and cheaper places,
No other country really offers this opportunity. My own career, dropping out of college and coding Unity games until I magically had a 6 figure career , is largely an American dream.
On the flip side, in almost every other developed country people don’t choose between medicine and rent.
Let’s say you have a chronic , but manageable health condition and a great job. You get fired in May, your wife files for divorce in September and you can be homeless by Christmas.
Now you’re in a shelter without the basic medic treatment you need.
Somehow it’s your fault. Tariffs destroyed your employers business, your fault.
If a bank needs a bailout golly gosh no expense shall be spared. A peasant can’t make rent this month, should have worked harder.
Combined with the prosperity gospel and if you suffer on the streets it means you made God angry or something. An infinite all powerful being and he’s upset you ate meat on the wrong day.
To be honest I dream of moving to a country where senseless stupid violence isn’t the norm. Maybe I’d have a kid and tell him that America is basically Disneyland if the rides occasionally derailed.
Every time I don't live somewhere, I notice that in the place I don't live, everyone is happier. Common denominator there?
Reminds me of that advice where we're warned not to compare ourselves to other people on social media, because we're only seeing their highlight reel.
Then why doesn't the author just leave?
Imaginary lines called borders tend to be the biggest constraint.
You and I both know it's not always that simple.
Maybe the author just loves to complain and actually does not want a solution.
Because “just” is doing some heavy lifting.
I’m too lazy to go back and find your Biden era bitching and tell you to do the same, but if we all followed your advice the place would be empty.
It wouldn't, because the vast majority of people whining about how terrible the US is and how great it is elsewhere aren't welcome elsewhere because they aren't a net benefit to their community.
Trying to immigrate to another country takes a lot of money and time and may have various other requirements.
He can fix them.
Maybe the author is opposed to that kind of freedom.
We can fix it with leadership and mentoring younger people. I'm trying to do this every single day. I love the spirit of people. I love the United States and what it has given me and my family growing up. You can project positive change and it doesn't have to be such a dark place. Look around you at the beauty. Be the change for the world and ultimately yourself.
Do you mentor young people through a program, or are they relatives/friends of family?
If your only experience with other countries are 2-3 week vacations then yes, those people will always be exceedingly kind to you. They are more than happy to be kind to you since A, you will be leaving soon and B, you are paying a good chunk of $$$ to be there.
The fact the author was able to take a multiple day vacation to several top Mexican resorts is exceedingly ironic. The meals he ate and the resorts he stayed at are probably on accessible to 10% of the entire Mexican population. Those around him made around $750 USD per month. A night at any of those resorts probably runs around that amount.
If you visit a small town in the USA and stay in a nice bed and breakfast, you will find the country has the same quaint charm as several places abroad.
> Every time I leave the US, I’m always struck by how happy other people seem to be.
Seems more than a little rose-tinted. I live in the UK and I can certify that there is a lot of misery here. Overloaded NHS, lack of housing, the Byzantine benefits and tax structures, lack of good jobs, etc.
Personally, I like living in the UK, despite all, but I also liked working in the US last time I did in the 1990s. Things have (obviously, Trumpism etc.) changed there, I guess.
It's so interesting how I feel the same way about where I live now... and even more interesting that every time I visit the US, people seem happier there than anywhere I've been before.
There is a whole genre of videos on YouTube where Europeans in the U.S. for the World Cup rave about how happy and friendly the locals are. Click on one and your feed fills up with them. These mostly start with saying that this is in rural America, away from the big cities. As a rural American that is my impression too. The people I bump into at the local one-horse town gas station are routinely more open and friendly than the ones in Albuquerque.
The author is comparing the locals to people in Baja California. Based on the above I'll predict that his locals are urban.
"People who live in small towns and rural areas are happier than everyone else, researchers say". -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/05/17/peopl...
> These mostly start with saying that this is in rural America, away from the big cities.
I'm not sure I follow here. Which rural parts of the US are home to stadiums, let alone big enough to host the World Cup? A cursory search shows we hosted in Seattle, SF, Boston, NYC, LA, Miami, Dallas, etc., which are our biggest and most prosperous cities.
There are plenty of friendly, happy people in American cities.
This is such an ironic blog post it hurts.
Other anecdotal accounts of very similar travels would offer a wider range of experiences, observations, and conclusions.
I'm American but moved to Europe years ago where I am definitely happier. I like the superstitious idea that the American continent is cursed from the deaths of 55 million native Americans since the discovery of the western hemisphere. I mean, I do t believe it but it does make a good story.
Sure, horrible things happened. But a big part of those deaths was the new diseases that people had no developed immunity to. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
It's not a literal concept.
But how can you stand the lack of innovation?
This is the funniest comment I have ever read on this website
I'm like 95% sure this person is being sarcastic based on their comment history.
It's one of those things that I'm really hoping is sarcastic/trolling but I've been here long enough to know it likely isn't.
You forgot the /s, I hope.
Why do we always need to be innovating? What's wrong with being content with what is?
Well, for one, the world changes around us in ways that necessitate innovation. But even if it didn't, if life can be better, why wouldn't you want that?
I never said it's wrong to want life to be better. Life is life. If someone finds enjoyment in a different way or pace of life, that's fine. The world's gonna do what the world's gonna do - some people want to be at the forefront, while others want to go with the flow or chill out.
That's okay. :)
China will beat us to AI.
There is far more to the world than AI.
It all becomes irrelevant if Europe slips into the dark ages.
Europe is guaranteed to "slip into the dark ages" if they don't keep up at exactly the same pace, or faster?
Yes?
What do these "dark ages" look like to you?
Yeah, and the hope is that AI will accelerate all of that, too.
AI will accelerate everything? Does everything need to be accelerated? If so, why does everything need to move faster?
Because the world is accelerating and we need to keep up.
Who is "we"? What of the people who are already very comfortable and happy living humble lives without keeping up with the current cutting edge of technology? The person content to sit on the shore and fish at a slow pace? To wander off into the woods and read a book for a few days?
Must they "accelerate" and "keep up"? Do they truly suffer if they don't? If they're happy doing so now, will they be unhappy in the future if they continue down their chosen paths?
So ? What did you expect, you think USA will remain number one for ever ?
innovation in what areas are you talking about?
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Maybe worth checking the data first...
https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction
I agree with the need for an empirical reality check, but have grown really skeptical about these kinds of cohort-level well-being measures.
I wouldn't say they're meaningless, but there's a lot of studies suggesting they don't really change much over time, and my sense is they don't change in tandem with events that should change well-being, except in extremes like widespread genocidal war.
There's even researchers who have kind of taken them seriously to suggest that people have social cognitive biases about the past, and societal changes. I respect them and think what they're suggesting is reasonable (in the sense that they're taking the measures seriously) but the other way of looking at it is to flip it around and raise the possibility that the aggregation-level measurement isn't tracking what we want it to.
I admit I don't have an alternative, and don't think they're worthless per se, I just feel like (as someone who does vaguely related research) like they're tracking something more akin to perceptual sets or world schemas than psychosocial functioning.
I guess at some level I always have the "everything is fine" dog meme in the back of my mind when I see these kinds of well-being or mood analyses.
As someone who does _very_ related research, I'd push back on your skepticism.
I recommend Gilbert's "Stumbling on Happiness". It very accessibly addresses almost every point you raised.
In particular, people have very bad intuitions about trauma and loss. Humans are shockingly adaptable and bounce back to full functioning and happiness almost all of the time. Provided you don't have a biased sample (such as people seeking care) this is equally apparent when talking to victims of trauma as when doing empirical research.
I'm aware of the research on trauma and posttraumatic growth (and have worked with such patients).
What I'm referring to are correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states.
There's a kind of disconnect in that on the one hand, you end up with these models of why disruptive political change happens — because people are deeply dissatisfied and having trouble making ends meet and so forth (cf the price of eggs etc) — but then on the other, end up concluding that well-being is inelastic to external events. So which is it?
Maybe it has nothing to do with aggregate level measurement? Even the trauma example is sort of telling: someone can end up being deeply impacted and their reported well-being remains the same (or even increases), but that story is very oversimplified at some level.
Sometimes I feel as if this line of reasoning leads to absurdities, like there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being. I'm being provocative on purpose to make a point — I don't think anyone really thinks that — but at some point you have to wrestle with the implications of what is being said, and at that point it kind of starts to become internally inconsistent.
> there's nothing wrong with traumatic harm or abuse because people are resilient and it doesn't matter to their well-being
I know it's just a throwaway example, but this statement isn't internally inconsistent. Traumatic harm hurts people now, it doesn't need to permanently harm them to be considered immoral.
A very similar knee-jerk often occurs when you people learn that parenting has very, very little effect on long-term psychological outcomes for children compared to genetics. But "parenting doesn't matter" is illogical for the same reason. "We may not hold their tomorrows in our hands but we surely hold their todays" - Judith Rich Harris
> correlations between group-level variables at the level of nations or states
Ecological mismatches in trauma harms is what I study, so I'll take the opportunity to shamelessly plug some of my and others' research, maybe you'll find it interesting.
[0] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-56641-002 (open at https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9dpqu) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [2] https://psycnet.apa.org/manuscript/2022-20702-001.pdf [3] https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstreams/e3528534-da4d-4402-a8b5-...
Wow Argentina surprised me given all the hand wringing about inflation. It must just be a fact of life there you adjust to and get on with your life
Consider: life may not be all about being happy.
You see what you're looking for, and that's about it.
Because of that, most people see what they feel internally.
>I’m recently back from Baja California Sur.
Well, you went to one of the most beautiful places on the planet. I wouldn't want to leave either.
On a more substantial comment, people seem much more happy in appearance and on specific moments than what they actually are. The grass is always greener on the other side, etc. The solution is and has always been to try to be satisfied (not happy) with what you have wherever you are.
>We don’t care for our children, our elderly, or our communities.
This is truly an issue and imo it has reached unprecedented lows.
"If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you're the asshole."
What nonsense. Of course, everything always looks so great when you're on vacation. Living somewhere full time and visiting for a few weeks is not the same.
There are plenty of kind, generous, happy people in the US. Wasn't there a gazillion memes about it during the World Cup?
This reads like twitter-level rage bait seriously.
Twitter-level rage bait or agitprop is a daily appearance on the HN front page these days.
> I think a part of it is the individualism we’re raised to embrace.
> We don’t care for our children, our elderly, or our communities. It’s all me me me. How do I get mine and fuck the other guy.
Capitalism, I'm looking at you.
Why don't you look at your own individualism instead?
Right, because socialist and communist states were shining beacons of morality, compassion, and abundance.
Your argument is silly. Europe is more content than the US and a big part of that is the social protections such as universal healthcare.
I like accelerator pedals on cars, I do, but I also like the brake pedal.
Your "argument" is extremely simplistic, and again has virtually nothing to do with capitalism.
Also, many homeless people are content, along with those in jails and small children (whether they are well cared for or not in many cases unfortunately). It's not a remotely good metric for anything other than how agreeable a person is and how low their expectations are.
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Its excuses. American capitalism/society gives us endless excuses for why our individual excess and waste is justified because someone else does it too. Then we get more excuses to blame the rich, the poor, the immigrants, the foreigners, the Jews, the Muslims, the africans, etc.
At the end of the day, a lot of Americans say they are one person while their actions prove otherwise. This creates a lot of shame, self hatred, confusion, anxiety, etc. The way Americans self describe vs who their actions say they are is vastly different. Then we blame the rich, the poor, the immigrants, the deep state, foreigners, etc.
"I love the environment" as we vote for a oil baron. "I love animals" as we shove more beef and dairy into our mouths and buy a 3rd chihuahua that poos/pees on pee pads cuz someone can't be bothered to let it out. I'd be confused about who I am if I said one thing and did another.
In modern America the individual can do no wrong. It is always someone elses fault. There is always a scapegoat to let us off the hook. DID YOU KNOW OIL COMPANIES MADE MO MONEY? Keep driving that SUV and buying beef watered in the desert.
You can count on Americans to do the right thing, after we've tried everything else and run out of excuses.
Americans are, according to our own logic, the most beautifully gifted society to ever exist while simultaneously being the biggest victims ever.
The sad part? We all know it and refuse to acknowledge or do anything about it. Its just easier to blame someone else, such as datacenters, or be a victim at the mercy of billionaires, while I get my $7 starbucks mocha. I'm sad, I'll get 2 mochas.
A good example is how people do things in really weird/inefficient ways, such as hand washing dishes or time drying their laundry, despite there being a dishwasher and moisture settings. If this is pointed out, the reaction is often emotional offense followed by "Don't tell me what to do!" Denial. Americans use their uniqueness to justify their excess. We get offended to avoid taking personal responsibility for our actions. Brb I'm ordering the latest funco doll cuz I neeeeeeeeed it.
Americans live simultaneously under Manifest Destiny and being slaves. It's wild. We are the greatest and the most victimized people to ever exist, in our words.
Sebastian Major from the podcast Our Fake History recently said that Americans are masters at branding. That's another way of saying we're masters at lying. To ourselves and others.
*obviously these are generalizations and most people will disagree with me. I'm not wrong. Start to look for it, especially in yourself. You'll see it on both sides of the political spectrum in various forms. It's entitlement all around. Look for it when liberals say "give em a break, life is hard" (excess disguised as compassion) as a person consumes 3x more than is reasonable. Look for it when conservatives say "God blessed this country and the Muslims are invading" as they open up pristine wilderness to resource extraction. They're not much different.
American culture was, quite literally, built on these ideals. This isn't a question of "Do I do this?" If you grew up in the USA you do this to some degree. If you disagree, congrats you're doing it. The question is how much responsibility are you going to take? What excuses are you going to employ? How honest are you going to be?
Powell reservoir (Lake Powell) is about to dry up. How many more burgers and steak are we gonna shove down our faces so we can feel that pride of a steak dinner? How much butter are we gonna slab on our plate as the western US grasslands burn unnaturally thanks to cattle grazing? Nevermind, it's the billionaires fault. Sorry I offended. I'm gonna go like some social media posts that are anti-AI cuz it'll make me feel like I accomplished something without actually sacrificing my excess. I could go without beef or I could complain about AI..... Eh I'll complain about AI, it's easier. I'm also on the carnivore diet cuz self-care trumps the environment and I need 230g of protein a day. (Excess disguised as self care/health.).
It’s the capitalism, stupid. Here’s a little blog post I penned a while back on the topic: https://www.ianwelsh.net/capitalism-as-mental-illness/
The irony hopping into a popular post to promote your own tangentially related blog post where you rail against "advertising" is papable.
Self promotion is allowed on HN.
Cue https://www.persuasion.community/p/ugh-capitalism in response
A far less compelling narrative is to handwave it away as "it's not really the system." The hyper-competition that capitalism breeds (for relatively little benefit) is the moral bane. More specifically, the recent history of touting capitalism while demonizing socialism has caused this shift, as opposed to the era of the New Deal, when social safety nets and public works were promoted as a net good. While there is a bill to pay for some programs (such as Social Security), the broader approach has largely been vindicated. Capitalism has produced severe wealth inequality, benefiting only a select few and breeding blatant corruption.
Calling everyone stupid is a surefire way to get them to read your post.
I imagine the parent comment was just paraphrasing on the "Is the economy stupid" phrase from the Clinton campaign,
It's a famous way to phrase rebuttals , famously political ones, and it's been used about a trillion times.
Flag fiends: Have some appreciation for nuance. This is not a hostile comment -- it's a concurrence, and on-topic.
The first sentence is insulting (even if indirect), for no reason other than attention seeking to click the link. The content is was an ok read.
Not to defend the down votes, but it's not just one thing. The article praises the attitudes of Mexicans and French folk, both of which are also capitalist countries.
It's capitalism to an extent, sure, but it's also the culture of a country.
There are few, if any, countries which have taken capitalism to the same extremes the US has. The concept of a country which is so at the mercy of capitalists that people will beg you not to call an ambulance for them when they’re injured is incredibly foreign to me despite living in the UK, a country renowned for its financial sector.
Which I guess is to say yes, it is the culture of a country, and the culture of the US strikes me as money above all else.
I have no idea why people blame capitalism for things like a lack of socialized medicine (which I support for the record).
It's the American emphasis on individual freedom that results in a lack of government mandates for healthcare. Nearly everyone has healthcare, adding the small percentage who don't to the existing government-run system would not be a major financial burden, and cases like the one you cited are effectively (but not literally) zero.
Historically, there's been a tug of war between people who feel like you should be able to take the chance of financial ruin over an unlikely event and those who think the state should be protecting those people from themselves, leading to the disaster of a system we have currently. That's pretty much the explanation.
“ By and large, we’re fat, lazy, poorly educated, and blind to the state of things. It’s embarrassing.”
100% wrong. Didn’t even bother reading after that
Well, the "fat" part is true, the US is #2 in obesity among developed countries. In many education metrics we are average or below average compared to the OECD countries (despite spending more than others) - let's round it out to "average". The others are less measurable.
The author is beaming about Mexico where the obesity rate is on par with the US.
The US rank 9th in terms of tertiary education in the world, so no, not "average'. And even average wouldn't translate to "uneducated".
tertiary education is just one metric. And yes Mexico is #1 obesity but that doesn't mean that the US being #2 is good. We are horribly overweight compared to Europe and Asia.
OP's shining example of Mexico is essentially as obese[0], and far less educated[1] than Americans on average. It's embarrassing to be this blind to the state of things when you have the resources to check your opinions for accuracy.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_r... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
>We don’t care for our children, our elderly, or our communities
This to me is the nub of it. Where is our humanity when people lie homeless and lifeless in stupor on the streets as Waymos glide by?
Some countries do better. Many don't. But we should always seek to model off those that put welfare of all people above welfare of one.
> Where is our humanity when people lie homeless and lifeless in stupor on the streets as Waymos glide by?
We've decided that those people have agency, and are not willing to force them into a facility against their will.
You can disagree with it, but that's the current choice the nation has made and it's not an invalid one.
Also, most people do care for their children, elderly, and communities. The US is not a failed state because not 100% of people or munipalities do.
> But we should always seek to model off those that put welfare of all people above welfare of one.
No thanks.