Do recommend the LG C series (C5 or C4 are new or the C1 series if you want a deal on classifieds - same hardware as the higher end models but needs a firmware bit flip). The OS is very rootable and it makes a great TV that doubles as a monitor. Supports free sync / g-sync. OLED is nice at this scale.
Text is very readable, refresh rate is good. It uses the same panels as the fancier G series in the larger sizes. One can root the firmware to make it go brighter. (Though this is screen works well in medium or dimly lit rooms. It does not shine in very bright rooms).
Plenty of YouTube videos singing the C series praises as a TV / Monitor.[1] LG webOS is also trivial/friendly to root in developer mode and network control of the tv is a nice to have.
Would avoid Samsung. I love the matte on the Frame and the design of the Serif but the OS is frustrating / impractical to root.
I Second avoiding Samsung. I had an LG, had to let it go to my ex, and got a Samsung because the rtings said it has a better color space coverage. The quality in the out of box experience is day and night. Samsung does every trick to take you to the homepage to show you ads. Even when using as a monitor, will analyse your content and phone home to use in showing you more "relevant" ads. I disconnected it from the rest of the world completely.
If I could sell it for 70% of the price, I would, and would get an LG again.
I'll third this, as a Samsung owner who uses it as primarily a monitor. My "favorite" feature is that when I use an app like Netflix and then press the "Exit" button on the remote there's a 50% chance I just land back on my desktop and a 50% chance that the menu that covers the bottom third of the screen is open. It can also frequently not find the signal of the computer, maybe 1 in 50 times. Sometimes it'll connect in a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes after replugging the HDMI, and sometimes updating the screen by doing things like pressing buttons that would cause something to change (my computer neither hybernates nor goes to sleep). Not to mention that it frequently will ask me to update the terms of service (I cannot reject them, I can only select "remind me later" and it starts to get aggressive) and it will change some settings when it force updates on me.
Another +1 for LG but it's worth mentioning that there are a few things that a TV firmware does that you don't necessarily want in a Monitor. Simple example: most TVs will stay on _forever_ with the "no signal" image bouncing around... but a proper monitor will interpret that as a sign that the PC has gone to sleep so the monitor should, too.
I have not looked into hacking the firmware to change this behavior but if there's a "custom rom" out there that can do this, I'd appreciate a link!
One of the best things about LG in general is their serial port.
It's hit/miss which of their models will have it exposed on the back, but if yours does, the protocol is well documented and is very simple.
My LG TV (used as a monitor) is really chatty on the network and so I keep it disconnected so I don't get periodic interruptions from little overlays telling me that $someApp has been updated and needs me to agree to new terms (yes, really!).
To re-gain remote control for automation, I use the serial port. I have an ESP32 connected to a mmWave sensor for active "at desk?" detection. This is integrated with Home Assistant which knows which PC my KVM is pointing to and if it's on or not. This lets me re-implement basic "if not at desk and no PC is on, put the display to sleep" automation.
My biggest complaint is more of an ecosystem issue; why is DisplayPort not common on TVs? Because this TV-As-A-Monitor is HDMI only, my KVM has to be HDMI and so does every PC that's hooked up. Would have been a lot nicer if the whole chain could be display port :/.
Less evil than Sony? I have an LG TV. I can't recommend it purely because they have the audacity to omit a play/pause button from the remote control. Pausing requires pressing the "centre" button one, two or three times depending on which app you are in. Pure insanity.
What's more devastating is that the CX and C1 actually had pause buttons, then they took them away around 2021/2022. It kills me that they have a dedicated button for Alexa and another for Sling (whatever that is) but none for pause.
You can disable most of the WebOS trashiness by Googling and digging through the settings. Once you get all the ads fully disabled, the OS is extremely clean and snappy.
And FYI Sony's OLED panels are made by LG. The Sonys are a bit better because of the software, but they're almost always more expensive, but if you can score a good deal they're definitely the way to go.
At least on the cx (I don’t see a point in upgrading for years) if you root webos you can redefine buttons on the remote. It’s great because I was getting infuriated by accidentally starting streaming apps that I never use and the cell phone apps as a remote alternative are utter trash from a usability standpoint.
I just can’t understand why there is a need for a remote app to do anything besides start to a tv remote. Well, I can, the poison apple of advertising as an additional revenue stream, but it’s still infuriating. I have an older Roku TV and that app has progressively gotten worse. it used to just be ideal, start, auto connect to the last connected tv, and immediately go to the remote. Now it’s a bunch of promotional content by default and you have to tab over to the remote. LGs is far more obnoxious and difficult to navigate. Absolutely inexcusable for displays that can cost $2500+
Same, bought an LG TV and remote is straight up disaster. I have huge hands, huge thumb etc, pressing on the center button means I get to press the other up, down, left, right buttons.
And don't even get me started with creating an LG account just to get anything working on the TV like downloading a system update.
I've owned Sony, Samsung, LG, TCL, Pioneer, Toshiba, Sharp, Amazon, and a variety of other flat panels over the years. I actually love the simplicity of the LG remote with the center button for play/pause. I don't need it to glow in the dark. I don't need to turn on my phone to find the button. I know exactly what button to press. Happy C1 owner over here since 2022. Still can't believe the quality of the image.
> same hardware as the higher end models but needs a firmware bit flip
I have a C1, and I got the technician's remote to try this. But it didn't work in my case - it seems that only some of them use the same hardware, probably based on supply chain needs. Still though, amazing screen. Takes a bit messing around with picture settings (there's some good guides online) but I've never found the "TV" parts to get in the way, just connected it via HDMI, put it in PC mode, disable wifi, and it's good to go. I guess I've been using it around 4 years now.
The only serious issue is the shininess of the screen. It's not terrible but I did have to rearrange my office a bit to make sure it wasn't facing a window.
I bought the Samsung Frame TV and I love it, but you're correct about Samsung's OS (it's sluggish, filled with ADs and by far the worst TV OS that I've used so far)
Contrary experience from me: i hate my samsung frame, especially because of the ads. And more especially because of that samsung tv channel which autostarts. And I hate it even more because these ads change the menu in such a way that you cannot navigate it blindly because it inserts itself as a button mid way in the menu bar.
You cannot disable or disable those things easily.
Built in airplay is unstable.
Bought and connected an apple tv, always switch on the tv with that. Most problems solved.
I have considered doing the same, but I decided to stick with the default since I love the Art Mode. I also bought it primarily as decoration, so it serves its purpose just fine.
(I wouldn't buy it as primary TV however, because of the previously mentioned OS annoyances)
I got my Frame with the house we bought. I never put it on my network. It's irritating that it powers-on many times to the wall art display function versus just being a TV. I definitely wouldn't have bought it standalone.
>It's irritating that it powers-on many times to the wall art display function versus just being a TV.
I personally love the Art Mode, but while browsing the service menu I've noticed that you can permanently disable it. You can make the secret menu appear by pressing some special combination or by pressing 2 buttons on the service remote[0].
I actually like the idea of art mode, but I'd only want to use something like that if it were a passive technology like e-ink. Otherwise I think the electricity use and wear and tear on the display would eat at me. The device is well built and the presentation is lovely, but I just can't stomach the idea of it burning electricity all the time. (I don't know what its standby draw is, sadly. I do have a lot of stuff on power strips because I worry about standby draw. You're making me realize that this TV, being built-in to the wall, has escaped that scrutiny.)
Agree. I have two recent Samsung smart tvs. The screen quality I like (OLED) but everything else about them I hate. I use a PS5 as an entry point for the tv, after the atrocious “tv boot up to functional time” which is a phrase I never considered having to say 20 years ago.
Ads? I thought HN crowd already know how to use a pihole or at least adguard dns. I got Samsung TV's in every room because they are easy to use with a Galaxy phone, using it as a remote and a keyboard. Also wireless DEX is soooo underrated. Want a specific app on tv? no problem. I'm basically using them as displays for my phone.
I've set up a Proton VPN wireguard connection for my TV with Tracker+Ad block on my router. I'm still somehow getting served ads, despite the VPN working properly. Maybe there's a bug in my router config. I will review it later.
Either Google, and other advertisers, put me in the "uses adblockers, be aggressive with ads" pool, or they've moved on to using DoH/DoT/etc in general. I've been able to confirm this by observing Google and other Android apps making TLS connections to known DoH/DoT/etc IPs, and blocking them worked.
At that point, you need more complex routing than what a simple DNS blocklist can provide via Pihole, and if you want good throughput, you're going to want real networking hardware and not a RPi.
++ for the LG homebrew community. The homebrew store literally has an app now that will auto refresh your dev token so your TV doesn't go out of devmode and uninstall all of your home brew. Used to have to setup a cron job to renew/refresh dev mode.
What is the method you mention? A top google result seems to be [1], which says
> All release versions of webOS 9 ("webOS 24") are patched. This means 2024 models and older TVs that have been upgraded to webOS 9 will require another exploit such as faultmanager-autoroot [2].
and [2] says
> As of 2025-08-24, the latest firmware for essentially all LG models running webOS 5, 6, 7, and 9 is patched.
I have one of them (don't remember which number) and OLED part is very nice. I haven't done anything with the TV itself, but I forked an old library (https://github.com/iguessthislldo/libLGTV_serial) to control it remotely through serial and Home Assistant without connecting it to my WiFi. I originally set this up for a much older 1080p LG TV, and was able to use it with a newer one with a few modifications.
edit: Apparently I specially have C3PUA according to the model data I added. Also if anyone is interested in this, I can update the README because I didn't change it after I forked it.
I am curious if the Cx series has the same issue as my B2 where Dolby Vision (Atmos?) seems to kill the video processing circuitry and requires me to power-cycle it.
Apparently the only fix is to disable it in your source, but it works like 75% of the time and I'd hate to lose the excellent picture quality of Netflix and YouTube via Google TV.
Worth trying are a different cable, and maybe a different source depending on your setup... my previous AVR had pretty consistent issues against my TV that I constantly had to soft power off and on to work around, it only happened when using the ARC port. On another setup, it turned out to be an issue with the cable.
I have a C2 OLED and it is a really nice TV. I've never connected it to the internet or tried to root it though. It behaves as a simple no-frills display.
How much pause should oled burn in give you though? Both from the buying used perspective and using as a secondary monitor where there might be fixed ui elements?
For "fun and interesting" consider an LG WebOS TV. Many can be rooted[1] which allows installing a homebrew channel[2] of unauthorized apps or writing your own.
I initially did it for Jellyfin before they made it into the official app store, but the Moonlight game streaming app has unlocked many hours of entertainment.
Moonlight is really fantastic. It's worked better than Geforce Now for me. Amazon's thing worked best, but they don't have as many games as my Steam does.
Moonlight is great, but be careful about overestimating how fast video decoding is. I would get 10-40ms additional latency, jitter doing moonlight from tv, vs running it on Linux on my mini PC homelab hooked up to the TV, my decoding/network latency was like 1-2ms for a frame
Are you using it over Ethernet or WiFi? I remember I tried Moonlight to a local computer two or three years ago over Ethernet and the latency was still too bad, any ideas if that's better today?
If you were using a TV streaming stick, many have slow Ethernet due to slow port (Micro-USB), slow PHY hardware (100 mbps) or slow network stack. For the popular streaming apps they only need 25 mbps max, so most stick makers put no effort into design or validation testing beyond that minimal use case. And they don't care about latency.
I use Moonlight via direct 1 gbps Ethernet from a high-end gaming PC in the same house through a Google Chromecast 4K HDMI dongle with a powered USB-C hub for the RJ-45 input and it works flawlessly at 60 fps 4K 10-bit HDR with around 12 ms video latency. Some USB 3 hubs and USB Ethernet dongles won't reach full speeds on some streaming devices USB ports. The second one I tried worked at full 1 gbps.
You have to verify every software and hardware component in the chain is working at high-speed/low latency in your environment with a local speed test hosted on your source machine. I used self-hosted OpenSpeedTest. Moonlight works great but none of the consumer streaming stick or USB hub/RJ-45 dongles test for high speed/low latency across dozens of different device port hardware/firmware combos - so you can't trust claimed specs. Assume it's slow until you verify it's not.
It goes gaming desktop PC -> ethernet -> fiber -> 5g -> wifi -> Amazon Fire stick at a flat 100km away from the PC, and I still finished Expedition 33 on it with no problems.
Unfortunately it still spies on you if you connect to the web :S
I guess you can mitigate that if you use something like a pi-hole? I do wish there was a solution using root/devmode to block ads (or better yet, run in whitelist mode!).
Hmm but I'm skeptical. All it takes is an update and the list is no longer relevant. And there's no guarantee that data isn't passed anyways through the domains that are not blocked.
Still, would love an "opensnitch" in whitelist mode for my TV!
I have Sony Bravia TV that has Android TV so I went looking for the docs to confirm you can enable developer mode, access adb, and sideload apps. While looking at the docs I discovered I can load HTML5 apps from USB! I never knew that but I'm going to do some experimentation in the near future.
It’s difficult to do better than Sony for an Android TV. Their Android build is one of the most junk-free out there. The newer ones can also use their internal speakers as a center channel when external stereo speakers are hooked up (giving dialogue a boost) which is pretty cool.
I use mine as a dumb TV but the built-in smarts are serviceable.
YMMV. it's never worked well for me. works great for the first week, then it stops connecting or i suddenly have several zombie bravia devices, all of which aren't connected.
best thing i ever did with my bravia was install a custom launcher via adb to finally rid myself of the endless ads, upsetting news, and terrible suggestions constantly shoved in my face without my consent. nice to be able to uninstall the misc bloat that you can't get to with the gui and just have a simple interface. all i want is to access jellyfin and maybe one or two other apps. much better all around experience now.
here's a nice reference for a lot of the stuff installed on bravia that you can elect to remove via adb:
OMG! thank you! I was unaware this was possible. I can't stand the fact that my expensive TV came with ads built-in. I use it in "only apps mode" so at least the only ad id showed is the top third of the screen one, but not the "recommended" content tiles. I'll do this instead once I go back home
Craigslist an older 1080p TV. People are getting rid of old "dumb" TV's, and sometimes you can get them free. I see seemingly undamaged LCD TV's out by garbage bins all the time. I sourced one such a TV for my wife for $100 a few years ago to use as a monitor - works great. No apps or anything - dumb as they come.
When those are needed, digital signage displays are the answer. They're more costly unfortunately but can be bought used and are guaranteed to work 12-18-24/24 in much less friendly environments than a living room. They're increasingly making use of Android or WebOS, unfortunately, but being aimed at the professional world they lack all those annoyances and the general crap the industry crams into home TVs.
My experience with HDR has been pretty abysmal on a $500 4K TV. Badly tuned HDR is way worse than no HDR at all.
I have 20/20 vision, and I really can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K for video games and movies. I will never do below 4k again on a desktop, but 1080p is more than fine for a TV. Higher framerate makes a far bigger difference than higher resolution for video games too.
You can see the difference in 4K when the bitrate is there, but most streaming platforms compress their videos too much for it to be worth it. It's definitely not the jump that 720p to 1080p is, though. I agree with everything else you said.
For gaming, the internal render resolution of a gaming console might not go over 1080p anyway. If it's a Switch 1 it might even be only 720p. So if that is the main usage, you are right, a 4k screen is a waste of money.
Whether 4k is worth it depends a lot on the size of the TV vs how far away you sit. For a 65" TV, I don't see much difference between 4k/1080p above ~8ft away.
HDR is indeed effectively a marketing gimmick on many cheap TVs. They are getting better though
I have a 1080p TV and it's fine for watching TV and movies but i am going to upgrade to a 4K display because i can definitely tell a difference in games, and i do most all my gaming on my TV.
Yes, but I think you are missing out on the part where it is close to free. I have a nice monitor for photos and other crap, but most of the shit I do is text. I do not need 4k.
If I (like my wife) was going to use a TV as a monitor at her desk, I would definitely want a 4k monitor. Up close, that is a video wall, with no need of window scaling.
Such as it is, I use 3x 1080p displays. It's fine for me, and approximates a larger curved super-wide display (while also being cheap). She does just fine with 1080p resolution however - rarely has more than 2-3 windows on screen at a time.
You're missing out on resolution (4K) and picture quality (HDR, contrast ratios, color gamut) improvements by doing this.
Not everyone suffers from FOMO.
I've only seen one movie that was worth the bother and expense of seeing it in 4K (Rear Window).
The rest of the things you mention are mostly for a very small slice of theoretical people with perfect vision in perfectly lit rooms at the perfect height and viewing angle.
Beyond icons on a sticker checklist, they mean nothing to the 99% of people who just want to watch sportsball or eat popcorn while watching Disney films with their kids.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but most people are still watching pigs.
The OP is not asking for a TV to watch TV on, he's asking for a TV to use as a second monitor for his laptop. When it comes to computer interfaces, the difference between 4K and HD is enormous. Especially for text.
The footage is analog (on film). It was shot with 0 pixels, so 4k pixels on an edge doesn't matter. Side note, footage itself is a term derived from film (how many feet of film).
You can scan film into whatever digital resolution you want. You could do an 8k scan if you felt like it. You might run into issues where the resolving power of the film is less than the scan, but 4k is not an unreasonable resolution to pull out of well lit studio shot movie stock.
Plus it’s a black & white movie, and b&w film has a higher “resolution” than color too right? Because you’re dealing with silver particles instead of physically larger color grains.
Or something like that. Someone more in the know please check my math.
Be warned, 'seemingly' is a key word there. I have picked up eight TVs up from alleys over the past few years and each has had a broken screen only visible when plugged in. I have no idea how people are breaking so many TVs.
I can remember when the Nintendo Wii came out, and people I know were damaging things when the remotes would go flying. It's like the Wii release every day in a house with kids. My brother-in-law is on their third TV in 5 years.
No. Brightness and contrast are maxed out but it's not bad with a cheaper model.
My opinion --- in some cases, the difference between expensive and cheap boils down to the picture controls being intentionally limited for marketing effect.
So the cheap model maxed out looks like the more expensive model at medium. People can recognize the difference in the store so they opt for the more expensive one. But the actual displays themselves are virtually identical.
It may actually be cheaper to make one grade of display and differentiate using the controls.
It disables smart features and many of the settings making it more like a dumb HDMI screen.
This may seem like a good thing, but it also usually enables a "vibrant" postprocessing picture mode, motion smoothing, and maximum brightness so the display looks good in a well lit big box store. Unless your viewing environment is similar (or you don't care so much) that's probably not what you want.
I've always thought this feature might have more potential if more modern deep-learning tech was baked into the video and not just dumb frame interpolation.
I can imagine that there would be a potential to generate interpolated frames that intelligently make fast-moving scenes more understandable while leaving slow-moving scenes more or less at their intended 24 FPS.
Many action movies, especially with close hand-to-hand combat in tight spaces, are difficult to understand visually because 24 FPS just doesn't quite catch the movements.
This is interesting to me. I never heard of "store mode". Is that common for "smart TVs" these days? My interest here is for my elderly mother who tries to watch TV, but her current LG is constantly bombarding her with notifications for software updates, recommendations and ads. It's very frustrating for her; it's to the point where she's afraid to turn on the TV.
I want a TV for her that will power-on directly to YouTube-TV, and that's it, nothing else, no notifications, nothing.
Best hackable smart TV should be a Linux box connected to a monitor or to a "smart" TV via HDMI without Internet access. The best thing about this setup is that you can stream Youtube ad-free though clients like VacuumTube. You can also open a browser and head straight to the high seas. Plus countless other things that are arbitrarily restricted or made difficult in locked down environments, all without your viewing habits being sent to the mothership, data brokers, and possibly the government.
The main downside is that there is currently no great "ten foot" UI for this use case on Linux. But the KDE Bigscreen project is being revived and could offer a definitive solution for free TVs.
Agreed, I don't have first-hand experience with Pi's, but I have seen reports that they struggle with 4K playback, even at 30fps. An advantage of the Pi however is that it supports HDMI-CEC.
Why does it need to be a TV? Why not a monitor? I don’t know why we even differentiate between the two of them these days… basically the only difference is that a TV might have an IR receiver for a remote.
I’d go with a basic monitor and factor out the “smart TV” into whatever device you prefer – Apple TV, Chromecast, Firestick, any SBC with Kodi loaded onto it… an Xbox… why couple the smart features to the display?
I had the same thought but found there are very few TV-size monitors on the market, and the ones there are cost an arm and a leg. There are also very few "dumb" TVs -- we finally got one by Insignia, Best Buy's store brand, which has been fine. If someone knows a better alternative please let me know!
Worth clarifying that when I was a kid "TV-size" meant anything above 13", but the times have changed considerably. :)
I bought a decent 4k monitor to go with my 4k media box, and the required 4k cable, but wouldnt play because 'for your safety, blocked because not a TV' or some such nonsense, think it was HDCP? Annoying enough for me to cancel 4k paid tv, plus they were busy agressively reducing the broadcast bitrate. Also ended up with a load of bluray 4k discs I cant use, and they wonder why people download stuff.
Agree, but also, much worse image quality. Put a, for example 32" TV and a monitor one next to each other, set native resolution, put up a screen with a lot of text, and you'll see - the difference is night and day.
I managed to grab a 55" 8K LG before 8K went out of fashion. I run it at 4k120 for games and 8k60 with doubling for productivity.
I've never had a better monitor and if one should exist it's not available in any store I know about. Monitors costing 2-3x as much as this TV did back then are worse. When it dies I will have to downgrade. :-/
Hmmm, I'm confused now: aren't 8K displays just becoming a thing? Your perspective sounds like they are a dying breed. In the meantime, for me, they are still prohibitively expensive.
>aren't 8K displays just becoming a thing? Your perspective sounds like they are a dying breed. In the meantime, for me, they are still prohibitively expensive.
I'd say yes and no - they are becoming a thing - again. And you're right that they are prohibitively expensive this time.
Some 5 years ago 8K tv's were heavily marketed and displayed in many electronics stores, but consumers apparently didn't bite - basically no 8K content available and for "normal" TV use you can barely see a difference between 4k and 8k anyway.
So these TV's were very cheap for a short while before they basically disappeared.
And they make for great PC monitors. At normal working distance from a monitor you definitely notice the difference between 4k and 8k.
The screen area is basically the same as a 2x2 grid of 27" 4k monitors, but in one screen. For productivity work it's absolutely glorious, text is super-crisp.
I think there is a market structure problem that blocks progress here. Most people who work all day at a monitor would love to have such a screen, but the people paying for screens buy what the producers are selling, based on price.
So we end up with dual or triple small-monitor setups even in the wealthiest companies. If a few of the FAAMGs started asking for a 50" 8K maybe something would happen, but it hasn't yet. :(
What does hackable mean in this context, and what's the downside of any old smart TV not connected to the internet and the input left on your laptop, where you'd never see anything having to with the manufacturer's app OS?
Most TV's today are actually giant Android computers. I opened a friends TV a few years back to try and examine a back light issue and to my surprise there were just 3 small PCB's in the TV: Power supply, LCD driver/interface, and the video input board that contains an Arm SoC. The PSU had a small harness that ran to the other two boards and the SoC board had a ribbon cable to the LCD panel.
The Arm SoC is the real interesting part here as it also has WiFi and Blue Tooth interface, Ethernet, and USB port(s). They're like a giant black box Raspberry Pi. If we could get our hands on the SoC datasheet then its possible we could flash that SoC to run whatever OS we want and actually have a Smart TV instead of a spyware and malware vector. Though I am sure no TV maker would ever let the plebs disable their money making spying and data exfiltration schemes.
I'm being pedantic but I liked your comment. Most TVs today are giant ARM computers, ~95% of TVs ship with ARM Cortex but only about 35% have some variant of Android.
Most LED backlights are wired in such a way that when one LED fails it bricks a significant portion of the panel backlight. You'll knock out entire rows or huge portions of neighbor backlight LEDs when one fails. Basically it's a cheap way to ensure a whole row of LEDs are the same brightness but the tradeoff is one LED fails and it looks like 5% of your screen went dark.
It seems like a good beginner-intermediate thing that'd be approachable to learn with a basic multimeter and beginner level soldering skills.
>If we could get our hands on the SoC datasheet then its possible we could flash that SoC to run whatever OS we want and actually have a Smart TV instead of a spyware and malware vector
Surely it's more straightforward to buy a SBC yourself and plug that into your TV? Even if you could flash it, dealing with random SoC/hardware seems not worth the hassle compared to shelling out $50-200 for a SBC that you picked and can be carried between TVs? Flashing third party ROMs like lineageos makes sense because there's no real alternative for smartphone hardware, but the same isn't true for smart TVs.
> Surely it's more straightforward to buy a SBC yourself and plug that into your TV?
Of course it is. Though my point is we already have the hardware in the TV and it would be awesome to actually use it the way we want to use it. Also, I have two dumb TV's, each with a small PC hooked to it and they haven't moved in years.
If you just want it for the HDMI input to use as an aux screen for what ever computer your running than anything with an HDMI input in the size range you want should work. I run all the TV's in my house like this; connected to mac mini's instead of futzing with the onboard software mostly because I despise typing one letter at a time with a tv remote.
Honestly all the onboard TV OS stuff I have interacted with in the last decade has been more or less terrible and I wouldn't even consider it when buying a TV especially one that is just going to be a screen. All of the recent installs Ive dealt with (family and friend support) has revealed a ton of pay-to-play features (Samsung frame tv's cough cough). I applaud you for wanting something neat but I cant say Ive come across anything Ive ever actually wanted to use beyond "select input -> HDMI1"...
Just never, ever connect the TV to the internet. Connect up an Nvidia shield, or a mini-PC/raspberry pi configured with whatever apps you desire, hidden behind a pi-hole. Connect a steam deck if gaming/linux desktop usage is your thing. I only touch the TV remote to switch on the TV, and even that could be automatable with home assistant+CEC if that's of interest.
I had a TV once, can't remember the brand, that refused to stream from my dlna server unless it could contact its own corporate servers over the internet first.
In theory, this seems great, but you won't be able to use the majority of streaming applications nor get the same quality out of those applications. Like Netflix, they purposely downgrade the streaming quality on desktop.
The NVIDIA shield doesn’t suffer from those issues in my experience. It’s far superior when browsing menus for example versus on a smart tv as the hardware is still decent even for a relatively old product. I just hope NVIDIA continues to support it for a while more.
You generally don't want a smart tv you can hack. You want a decent computer you own sending signal through the external inputs.
The SBC in the TV is, hands down across basically every "smart" TV I've interacted with, a cheap piece of crap (even well into the "expensive" brands and models).
Manufacturers stick the absolute cheapest garbage in there that can output the advertised resolution during playback without stuttering.
So you can spend hours/days/week wrestling this cheap, underpowered board back from the manufacturer... or you can just side-step it entirely and spend much less time and effort sticking a decent computer you own behind the tv.
All my TVs have an Apple TV on them and that's all that is used (aside from a game console here and there). I pretty much never need to interact with the TV OS. Is there a Netflix app on my TV? Probably, I'll never know, I've never even launched the app store.
It's been a bit since I've done this (I'm not watching live TV anymore), but something like HDHomeRun worked fine.
It basically pairs an antenna with a small computer to convert to network traffic, then gives you an app on your streaming device to play it back.
You do need to be able to run the vendor's app, and you'll get stuck with that UI for live tv (So yeah - totally agree that you're compromising the UX). But still no reliance on the "smarts" built into the tv.
I have an HDHomeRun box and use it through Plex. I've never installed the HDHomeRun software. Plex immediately recognized it as soon as I plugged it in. There is a noticeable amount of latency between selecting a channel and starting the stream, so channel surfing is pretty cumbersome, but I almost never do that. With the paid version of Plex (Plex Pass), you also get DVR support which automatically removes commercials from the recording, so that's pretty much the only way I use it.
Not per se a TV, but it is worth pointing out that LineageOS literally has builds for some set top boxes; if I go to https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ and filter to device type > set top box, then it lists 7 options.
Older LG sets (tested on C9 OLED) had security vulnerabilities you could use to root your TV and then do "??????" you wanted with them. WebOS as a platform causes a lot of unproductive discussion surrounding it's ecosystem and such but if you want to "hack" or actually have a shell on your TV it's great for that to do anything else you want. Personal favorites include changing the default screensaver behavior to the bouncing DVD logo, running Chocolate Doom, and a port of Space Cadet pinball natively. More info here - https://rootmy.tv/
As ex-Smart TV app developer, I would stay with Sony's Android TV. Reason being
- Samsung Tizen is sluggish.
- LG webOS is fiddly and don't feel it gets enough attention and care from LG.
- Other brand is just slow.
- On hackability, Android is far easier to handle than any other brand.
Mind you Sony has a few line and some run Android, some run something else.
I use a NEC OPS module tv I got on facebook marketplace as a digital signage monitor. Best purchase I've made yet, though I will admit the feet for it being 200 dollars was quite a shock (they're made out of steel and about 2 feet long each so it makes sense) completely dumb tv, takes all inputs from HDMI to component and has features like auto-sleep without any real smarts inside. I love it.
I think Samsung TVs can be interacted with through HA's SmartThings integration but I don't use that at all. Instead I have my Harmony Hubs (yes, a dying breed, literally) connected and that's the only way I interact with my TVs via HA.
"Alexa, turn on Living Room TV" -> HA -> Harmony -> IR Blaster
I think through the Apple TV integration I can control them even further but I greatly prefer just using the Harmony remote. I'm not looking forward to the day when those stop working completely and I have to evaluate other options. Every year or so I look around but nothing beats my old Harmony remote (with a coin battery that lasts so long I've lost track, easily over a year) and the Harmony Hub (which actually sends out the signals).
LG TVs have well known WebSocket and serial-port APIs. I haven't tried it with HA, but I'm using alga CLI (https://github.com/Tenzer/alga) to automate my TV (which I'm using as a dumb monitor).
I have a 10yr old Insignia 1080p TV. One of the 3 HDMI inputs is a Roku stick and I have Home Assistant watch for it and load the Jellyfin app whenever the TV gets turned on. Works most of the time and it's nice to avoid the Roku ads.
Can you expand here? What are you looking for in specific?
I think I have a framework-like TV. It's a high end TV set to store mode which has no smartOS annoyances. From there, I have expansion modules (they connect via HDMI) like a HDFury Vertex with CFW, Nvidia Shield, PS5, etc.
Decoupling the TV from the OS has helped a ton with longetivity
Stay away from lg, anything with android is a good choice; custom launchers to remove the gif damn Home Screen. I stick to Sonys my one of tv is so terrible will never buy one again.
I actually would like to have a hackable AOSP device with some kind of open source chromecast (because chromecast comes with the Google Services, I guess?).
Then I can plug that into any dumb TV/beamer I find.
I mentioned in another post here that I opened a friends TV and found just 3 PCB's: Power, LCD interface, and Video SoC. The video SoC is an Arm SoC for TVs that runs Android complete with video input switching matrix and processing. The SoC board had Wifi, bluetooth, Ethernet and USB. It's all there.
My dream is to hack that SoC to boot whatever OS. Though good luck getting the datasheets...
You could score some insane screens from recycling centers, but at least in Finland, its fucking illegal to repurpose (steal) "electronic waste"
However, depending where you're located, all that stuff might go to somewhere else than smasher and smelter, so please check such places around you!
Good example is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbqOvBHVpbw ,he found old tobacco ad display (ips!) for cheap!
I kind of hate smart TVs -- my family got a Samsung one that got feature obsoleted in months , but I needed a cctv kiosk -- I bought a fire stick and the cheapest +speakers monitor on amazon with an HDMI port and USB power, was pleasantly surprised; 4k, tiny, performant, adb access isn't fucked up, and you can change the home screen.
By the end of the day it's just an android device with an HDMI out, and that's exactly what I wanted.
I ditched the whole smart TV years ago. I was never a fan of the slow, ad-ridden software, and later found that enormous packets were being sent when I monitored the DNS at the network level despite the TV being 'turned off'. Instead, I got a non-smart TV (you can find old Sony TVs) and attached a TV box or direct hdmi to an old laptop instead, far smoother and better at all levels.
I think Tizen lets you write your own apps. I know I installed Emby on one of the very cheap smart tvs recently and had to install it via developer mode and pull in the package by typing the IP of my laptop into the TV (maybe vice versa).
I didn't write the code but it seemed like you can get a development account from Tizen and write your own apps.
To be clear, Tizen is not a brand of TV, it's the name of the OS. It's fairly common on various no-name hardware brand, check it out.
Related, many modern TVs have "game mode" which prioritizes video latency, with the loss of some of the algs being available.
RTINGS actually tracks this, with most being comparable to monitors at the same refresh rate, while in game mode (around 10x faster than non-game mode). [1]
4k@120Hz with VRR is even available in < $1k TVs these days!
And, for audio latency, unless you're using the built in speakers, it's fairly trivial to make the video and audio paths independent.
Do recommend the LG C series (C5 or C4 are new or the C1 series if you want a deal on classifieds - same hardware as the higher end models but needs a firmware bit flip). The OS is very rootable and it makes a great TV that doubles as a monitor. Supports free sync / g-sync. OLED is nice at this scale.
Text is very readable, refresh rate is good. It uses the same panels as the fancier G series in the larger sizes. One can root the firmware to make it go brighter. (Though this is screen works well in medium or dimly lit rooms. It does not shine in very bright rooms).
Plenty of YouTube videos singing the C series praises as a TV / Monitor.[1] LG webOS is also trivial/friendly to root in developer mode and network control of the tv is a nice to have.
Would avoid Samsung. I love the matte on the Frame and the design of the Serif but the OS is frustrating / impractical to root.
[1] https://youtu.be/Qtve0u3GJ9Y
I Second avoiding Samsung. I had an LG, had to let it go to my ex, and got a Samsung because the rtings said it has a better color space coverage. The quality in the out of box experience is day and night. Samsung does every trick to take you to the homepage to show you ads. Even when using as a monitor, will analyse your content and phone home to use in showing you more "relevant" ads. I disconnected it from the rest of the world completely. If I could sell it for 70% of the price, I would, and would get an LG again.
Do not get a Samsung...
Another +1 for LG but it's worth mentioning that there are a few things that a TV firmware does that you don't necessarily want in a Monitor. Simple example: most TVs will stay on _forever_ with the "no signal" image bouncing around... but a proper monitor will interpret that as a sign that the PC has gone to sleep so the monitor should, too.
I have not looked into hacking the firmware to change this behavior but if there's a "custom rom" out there that can do this, I'd appreciate a link!
One of the best things about LG in general is their serial port. It's hit/miss which of their models will have it exposed on the back, but if yours does, the protocol is well documented and is very simple.
My LG TV (used as a monitor) is really chatty on the network and so I keep it disconnected so I don't get periodic interruptions from little overlays telling me that $someApp has been updated and needs me to agree to new terms (yes, really!).
To re-gain remote control for automation, I use the serial port. I have an ESP32 connected to a mmWave sensor for active "at desk?" detection. This is integrated with Home Assistant which knows which PC my KVM is pointing to and if it's on or not. This lets me re-implement basic "if not at desk and no PC is on, put the display to sleep" automation.
My biggest complaint is more of an ecosystem issue; why is DisplayPort not common on TVs? Because this TV-As-A-Monitor is HDMI only, my KVM has to be HDMI and so does every PC that's hooked up. Would have been a lot nicer if the whole chain could be display port :/.
I second this simply because LG is the least evil of all smart TV manufacturers _and_ has the best panels and (usually) connectivity.
I think LG made the 5K iMac panels.
They did, and I think they still do. I have two pretty amazing LG monitors and a couple of TVs.
Less evil than Sony? I have an LG TV. I can't recommend it purely because they have the audacity to omit a play/pause button from the remote control. Pausing requires pressing the "centre" button one, two or three times depending on which app you are in. Pure insanity.
WebOS is trash too.
Probably going to buy a Sony next time.
What's more devastating is that the CX and C1 actually had pause buttons, then they took them away around 2021/2022. It kills me that they have a dedicated button for Alexa and another for Sling (whatever that is) but none for pause.
You can disable most of the WebOS trashiness by Googling and digging through the settings. Once you get all the ads fully disabled, the OS is extremely clean and snappy.
And FYI Sony's OLED panels are made by LG. The Sonys are a bit better because of the software, but they're almost always more expensive, but if you can score a good deal they're definitely the way to go.
At least on the cx (I don’t see a point in upgrading for years) if you root webos you can redefine buttons on the remote. It’s great because I was getting infuriated by accidentally starting streaming apps that I never use and the cell phone apps as a remote alternative are utter trash from a usability standpoint.
I just can’t understand why there is a need for a remote app to do anything besides start to a tv remote. Well, I can, the poison apple of advertising as an additional revenue stream, but it’s still infuriating. I have an older Roku TV and that app has progressively gotten worse. it used to just be ideal, start, auto connect to the last connected tv, and immediately go to the remote. Now it’s a bunch of promotional content by default and you have to tab over to the remote. LGs is far more obnoxious and difficult to navigate. Absolutely inexcusable for displays that can cost $2500+
Same, bought an LG TV and remote is straight up disaster. I have huge hands, huge thumb etc, pressing on the center button means I get to press the other up, down, left, right buttons.
And don't even get me started with creating an LG account just to get anything working on the TV like downloading a system update.
I've owned Sony, Samsung, LG, TCL, Pioneer, Toshiba, Sharp, Amazon, and a variety of other flat panels over the years. I actually love the simplicity of the LG remote with the center button for play/pause. I don't need it to glow in the dark. I don't need to turn on my phone to find the button. I know exactly what button to press. Happy C1 owner over here since 2022. Still can't believe the quality of the image.
I wouldn't confuse evil with incompetence...
> same hardware as the higher end models but needs a firmware bit flip
I have a C1, and I got the technician's remote to try this. But it didn't work in my case - it seems that only some of them use the same hardware, probably based on supply chain needs. Still though, amazing screen. Takes a bit messing around with picture settings (there's some good guides online) but I've never found the "TV" parts to get in the way, just connected it via HDMI, put it in PC mode, disable wifi, and it's good to go. I guess I've been using it around 4 years now.
The only serious issue is the shininess of the screen. It's not terrible but I did have to rearrange my office a bit to make sure it wasn't facing a window.
I bought the Samsung Frame TV and I love it, but you're correct about Samsung's OS (it's sluggish, filled with ADs and by far the worst TV OS that I've used so far)
Contrary experience from me: i hate my samsung frame, especially because of the ads. And more especially because of that samsung tv channel which autostarts. And I hate it even more because these ads change the menu in such a way that you cannot navigate it blindly because it inserts itself as a button mid way in the menu bar. You cannot disable or disable those things easily. Built in airplay is unstable.
Bought and connected an apple tv, always switch on the tv with that. Most problems solved.
If you disable internet access for the device at the router level, the ads, the autostarting tv, etc all go away.
I have considered doing the same, but I decided to stick with the default since I love the Art Mode. I also bought it primarily as decoration, so it serves its purpose just fine. (I wouldn't buy it as primary TV however, because of the previously mentioned OS annoyances)
I got my Frame with the house we bought. I never put it on my network. It's irritating that it powers-on many times to the wall art display function versus just being a TV. I definitely wouldn't have bought it standalone.
>It's irritating that it powers-on many times to the wall art display function versus just being a TV.
I personally love the Art Mode, but while browsing the service menu I've noticed that you can permanently disable it. You can make the secret menu appear by pressing some special combination or by pressing 2 buttons on the service remote[0].
[0] https://www.amazon.com/AA81-00243A-Replaced-Service-Control-...
I'll check that out. Thank you.
I actually like the idea of art mode, but I'd only want to use something like that if it were a passive technology like e-ink. Otherwise I think the electricity use and wear and tear on the display would eat at me. The device is well built and the presentation is lovely, but I just can't stomach the idea of it burning electricity all the time. (I don't know what its standby draw is, sadly. I do have a lot of stuff on power strips because I worry about standby draw. You're making me realize that this TV, being built-in to the wall, has escaped that scrutiny.)
Agree. I have two recent Samsung smart tvs. The screen quality I like (OLED) but everything else about them I hate. I use a PS5 as an entry point for the tv, after the atrocious “tv boot up to functional time” which is a phrase I never considered having to say 20 years ago.
Ads? I thought HN crowd already know how to use a pihole or at least adguard dns. I got Samsung TV's in every room because they are easy to use with a Galaxy phone, using it as a remote and a keyboard. Also wireless DEX is soooo underrated. Want a specific app on tv? no problem. I'm basically using them as displays for my phone.
I've set up a Proton VPN wireguard connection for my TV with Tracker+Ad block on my router. I'm still somehow getting served ads, despite the VPN working properly. Maybe there's a bug in my router config. I will review it later.
(In Proton's Wireguard Configuration Wizard, I've selected "Block malware, ads, & trackers" - see: https://protonvpn.com/support/netshield)
It's not 2015 anymore, advertisers aren't relying on DNS requests that a Pihole or AdGuard can block.
yes, most are.
Either Google, and other advertisers, put me in the "uses adblockers, be aggressive with ads" pool, or they've moved on to using DoH/DoT/etc in general. I've been able to confirm this by observing Google and other Android apps making TLS connections to known DoH/DoT/etc IPs, and blocking them worked.
At that point, you need more complex routing than what a simple DNS blocklist can provide via Pihole, and if you want good throughput, you're going to want real networking hardware and not a RPi.
My smart TV is used as a dumb TV and not connected to the internet because I cannot trust it to work in my interests...
++ for the LG homebrew community. The homebrew store literally has an app now that will auto refresh your dev token so your TV doesn't go out of devmode and uninstall all of your home brew. Used to have to setup a cron job to renew/refresh dev mode.
Is rooting just for homebrew or can I get rid of all the advertising and dark patterns?
Pi-hole gets rid of a lot of the advertising, and homebrew gets you an ad-free YouTube client, but dark patterns are still there.
all the methods to root have been patched in the latest webos version :(
Even the USB key .mp3 homebrew?
https://cani.rootmy.tv/?q=OLED42C2PUA at least here the one listed method for webOS 24 is patched.
What is the method you mention? A top google result seems to be [1], which says
> All release versions of webOS 9 ("webOS 24") are patched. This means 2024 models and older TVs that have been upgraded to webOS 9 will require another exploit such as faultmanager-autoroot [2].
and [2] says
> As of 2025-08-24, the latest firmware for essentially all LG models running webOS 5, 6, 7, and 9 is patched.
[1] https://github.com/throwaway96/dejavuln-autoroot
[2] https://github.com/throwaway96/faultmanager-autoroot
> same hardware as the higher end models but needs a firmware bit flip
Is this firmware bit flip known? couldn't find anything off google.
https://cani.rootmy.tv/
This is incredible. I had no idea that there is a Homebrew channel!
I have one of them (don't remember which number) and OLED part is very nice. I haven't done anything with the TV itself, but I forked an old library (https://github.com/iguessthislldo/libLGTV_serial) to control it remotely through serial and Home Assistant without connecting it to my WiFi. I originally set this up for a much older 1080p LG TV, and was able to use it with a newer one with a few modifications.
edit: Apparently I specially have C3PUA according to the model data I added. Also if anyone is interested in this, I can update the README because I didn't change it after I forked it.
I am curious if the Cx series has the same issue as my B2 where Dolby Vision (Atmos?) seems to kill the video processing circuitry and requires me to power-cycle it.
Apparently the only fix is to disable it in your source, but it works like 75% of the time and I'd hate to lose the excellent picture quality of Netflix and YouTube via Google TV.
Worth trying are a different cable, and maybe a different source depending on your setup... my previous AVR had pretty consistent issues against my TV that I constantly had to soft power off and on to work around, it only happened when using the ARC port. On another setup, it turned out to be an issue with the cable.
YMMV.
Unfortunately the Google TV is direct attach, no cable.
I have CX, works without issues here. I'm watching raw .mkv and .mp4 files with DV, HDR and Atmos.
I was looking for a 40-43in 4K TV for PC monitor use, considered the LG C series, but it wouldn't work in my bright room.
I went with Samsung QN90C instead and I'm super happy with it. It's very bright, fights glare well, and there's Jellyfin for it.
I really wish there were alternatives for the millions of us out there who love the Frame concept but hate the Samsung OS.
Hisense Canvas and TCL NXTVISION
Thanks that's great to know! I've got one to tinker with.
I have a C2 OLED and it is a really nice TV. I've never connected it to the internet or tried to root it though. It behaves as a simple no-frills display.
How much pause should oled burn in give you though? Both from the buying used perspective and using as a secondary monitor where there might be fixed ui elements?
For "fun and interesting" consider an LG WebOS TV. Many can be rooted[1] which allows installing a homebrew channel[2] of unauthorized apps or writing your own.
I initially did it for Jellyfin before they made it into the official app store, but the Moonlight game streaming app has unlocked many hours of entertainment.
1. https://cani.rootmy.tv
2. https://www.webosbrew.org/
This is also the coolest thing you can do for a rooted webOS tv:
https://github.com/satgit62/How-to-Install-and-set-up-Ambili...
doesn't need to go through another device to capture the HDMI, it's built right in!
Second-coolest has got to be https://repo.webosbrew.org/apps/org.webosbrew.custom-screens... ("Bouncing DVD logo" screensaver)
I had a spare pair of Hue lights that I mounted behind my Android TV. Bummer I can't use Hue Sync on built-in streaming apps.
Only time they get used is when I'm playing Fortnite. I had Huenicorn set up for NixOS, but I haven't bothered trying again in SteamOS.
Moonlight is really fantastic. It's worked better than Geforce Now for me. Amazon's thing worked best, but they don't have as many games as my Steam does.
Moonlight is great, but be careful about overestimating how fast video decoding is. I would get 10-40ms additional latency, jitter doing moonlight from tv, vs running it on Linux on my mini PC homelab hooked up to the TV, my decoding/network latency was like 1-2ms for a frame
Yes, of course, I wouldn't play a game that requires fast reactions over Moonlight, but 40ms won't ruin the experience for most games.
Are you using it over Ethernet or WiFi? I remember I tried Moonlight to a local computer two or three years ago over Ethernet and the latency was still too bad, any ideas if that's better today?
If you were using a TV streaming stick, many have slow Ethernet due to slow port (Micro-USB), slow PHY hardware (100 mbps) or slow network stack. For the popular streaming apps they only need 25 mbps max, so most stick makers put no effort into design or validation testing beyond that minimal use case. And they don't care about latency.
I use Moonlight via direct 1 gbps Ethernet from a high-end gaming PC in the same house through a Google Chromecast 4K HDMI dongle with a powered USB-C hub for the RJ-45 input and it works flawlessly at 60 fps 4K 10-bit HDR with around 12 ms video latency. Some USB 3 hubs and USB Ethernet dongles won't reach full speeds on some streaming devices USB ports. The second one I tried worked at full 1 gbps.
You have to verify every software and hardware component in the chain is working at high-speed/low latency in your environment with a local speed test hosted on your source machine. I used self-hosted OpenSpeedTest. Moonlight works great but none of the consumer streaming stick or USB hub/RJ-45 dongles test for high speed/low latency across dozens of different device port hardware/firmware combos - so you can't trust claimed specs. Assume it's slow until you verify it's not.
It goes gaming desktop PC -> ethernet -> fiber -> 5g -> wifi -> Amazon Fire stick at a flat 100km away from the PC, and I still finished Expedition 33 on it with no problems.
I'd say definitely give it another go.
Moonlight works flawlessly for me and I use FreeBSD as a daily driver. Of all OSes to play games.
UnRaid + KVM VM + GPU Passthrough with Moonlight has meant I no longer have to dual boot to game.
60FPS at 1080p on a 4k screen. 4k struggles but I think that's more my GPU then anything else. I do have 2x of them.
I'm assuming you don't play many games with anticheat though since they'd flag it running in a VM
Only older models that have not been upgraded to latest webos.
Can confirm and will add that depending on what model you get, webos UI is a breath of fresh air compared to other heavyweights ( like samsung ).
Great..... another rabbit hole to go down. I have an LG CX and I never knew I could root it. Glad I never gave it internet access.
Unfortunately it still spies on you if you connect to the web :S
I guess you can mitigate that if you use something like a pi-hole? I do wish there was a solution using root/devmode to block ads (or better yet, run in whitelist mode!).
You're correct on all points.
However, if you do have an pihole/adguard home, this list does get rid of all the ads: https://gist.github.com/d4kine/b2458cc9d693d7d36193be0247094...
Hmm but I'm skeptical. All it takes is an update and the list is no longer relevant. And there's no guarantee that data isn't passed anyways through the domains that are not blocked.
Still, would love an "opensnitch" in whitelist mode for my TV!
As you should be, I can only claim it blocks ads because that's my experience. I don't know if I'm being tracked.
But it has worked blocked the ads since 2023, so that's something.
I have Sony Bravia TV that has Android TV so I went looking for the docs to confirm you can enable developer mode, access adb, and sideload apps. While looking at the docs I discovered I can load HTML5 apps from USB! I never knew that but I'm going to do some experimentation in the near future.
https://pro-bravia.sony.net/develop/app/getting-started/inde...
It’s difficult to do better than Sony for an Android TV. Their Android build is one of the most junk-free out there. The newer ones can also use their internal speakers as a center channel when external stereo speakers are hooked up (giving dialogue a boost) which is pretty cool.
I use mine as a dumb TV but the built-in smarts are serviceable.
There is also a Sony Bravia integration for Home Assistant (using the REST API that's in almost all Bravia TVs).
https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/braviatv/
YMMV. it's never worked well for me. works great for the first week, then it stops connecting or i suddenly have several zombie bravia devices, all of which aren't connected.
best thing i ever did with my bravia was install a custom launcher via adb to finally rid myself of the endless ads, upsetting news, and terrible suggestions constantly shoved in my face without my consent. nice to be able to uninstall the misc bloat that you can't get to with the gui and just have a simple interface. all i want is to access jellyfin and maybe one or two other apps. much better all around experience now.
here's a nice reference for a lot of the stuff installed on bravia that you can elect to remove via adb:
https://github.com/therealhoodboy/skinny-bravia
OMG! thank you! I was unaware this was possible. I can't stand the fact that my expensive TV came with ads built-in. I use it in "only apps mode" so at least the only ad id showed is the top third of the screen one, but not the "recommended" content tiles. I'll do this instead once I go back home
Craigslist an older 1080p TV. People are getting rid of old "dumb" TV's, and sometimes you can get them free. I see seemingly undamaged LCD TV's out by garbage bins all the time. I sourced one such a TV for my wife for $100 a few years ago to use as a monitor - works great. No apps or anything - dumb as they come.
You're missing out on resolution (4K) and picture quality (HDR, contrast ratios, color gamut) improvements by doing this.
When those are needed, digital signage displays are the answer. They're more costly unfortunately but can be bought used and are guaranteed to work 12-18-24/24 in much less friendly environments than a living room. They're increasingly making use of Android or WebOS, unfortunately, but being aimed at the professional world they lack all those annoyances and the general crap the industry crams into home TVs.
My experience with HDR has been pretty abysmal on a $500 4K TV. Badly tuned HDR is way worse than no HDR at all.
I have 20/20 vision, and I really can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K for video games and movies. I will never do below 4k again on a desktop, but 1080p is more than fine for a TV. Higher framerate makes a far bigger difference than higher resolution for video games too.
You can see the difference in 4K when the bitrate is there, but most streaming platforms compress their videos too much for it to be worth it. It's definitely not the jump that 720p to 1080p is, though. I agree with everything else you said.
For gaming, the internal render resolution of a gaming console might not go over 1080p anyway. If it's a Switch 1 it might even be only 720p. So if that is the main usage, you are right, a 4k screen is a waste of money.
Whether 4k is worth it depends a lot on the size of the TV vs how far away you sit. For a 65" TV, I don't see much difference between 4k/1080p above ~8ft away.
HDR is indeed effectively a marketing gimmick on many cheap TVs. They are getting better though
Also the content being viewed. High bandwidth 1080p can look sharper than over-compressed 4k.
It’s why even non-4k BluRays sometimes look better than streaming.
I have a 1080p TV and it's fine for watching TV and movies but i am going to upgrade to a 4K display because i can definitely tell a difference in games, and i do most all my gaming on my TV.
Yes, but I think you are missing out on the part where it is close to free. I have a nice monitor for photos and other crap, but most of the shit I do is text. I do not need 4k.
If I (like my wife) was going to use a TV as a monitor at her desk, I would definitely want a 4k monitor. Up close, that is a video wall, with no need of window scaling.
Such as it is, I use 3x 1080p displays. It's fine for me, and approximates a larger curved super-wide display (while also being cheap). She does just fine with 1080p resolution however - rarely has more than 2-3 windows on screen at a time.
Good. Some of us don't need or want those things.
HDR is a mixed bag on PCs, and 4K comes at a system performance cost. OP said this was intended to be a monitor.
You're missing out on resolution (4K) and picture quality (HDR, contrast ratios, color gamut) improvements by doing this.
Not everyone suffers from FOMO.
I've only seen one movie that was worth the bother and expense of seeing it in 4K (Rear Window).
The rest of the things you mention are mostly for a very small slice of theoretical people with perfect vision in perfectly lit rooms at the perfect height and viewing angle.
Beyond icons on a sticker checklist, they mean nothing to the 99% of people who just want to watch sportsball or eat popcorn while watching Disney films with their kids.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but most people are still watching pigs.
Pretty sure I read this same comment when the transition from DVD to 1080p/Blu-ray occurred and people were updating their TVs.
The difference is the 4k content isn't available like the 1080p content was then. Streaming "4k" is a bad joke with its bitrates.
The OP is not asking for a TV to watch TV on, he's asking for a TV to use as a second monitor for his laptop. When it comes to computer interfaces, the difference between 4K and HD is enormous. Especially for text.
I never want to go back to 1080p text editing on a monitor, personally.
Rear Window? A movie from 1954? Can you explain how that was better in 4K when the footage isn't even 4K?
The footage is analog (on film). It was shot with 0 pixels, so 4k pixels on an edge doesn't matter. Side note, footage itself is a term derived from film (how many feet of film).
You can scan film into whatever digital resolution you want. You could do an 8k scan if you felt like it. You might run into issues where the resolving power of the film is less than the scan, but 4k is not an unreasonable resolution to pull out of well lit studio shot movie stock.
It was on film, probably 35mm. That film contains more information than 4k video. Resolution is between 4K and 6K.
Plus it’s a black & white movie, and b&w film has a higher “resolution” than color too right? Because you’re dealing with silver particles instead of physically larger color grains.
Or something like that. Someone more in the know please check my math.
It was shot in colour. But the rest of the comments in the tree apply.
It seems my memory fails me.
It's not in black and white.
If it was shot on film, isn't it possible to get 4K from it? Thought that was old news already.
Obligatory Technology Connections video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpABCxiDaU
Be warned, 'seemingly' is a key word there. I have picked up eight TVs up from alleys over the past few years and each has had a broken screen only visible when plugged in. I have no idea how people are breaking so many TVs.
I can help: Children.
I can remember when the Nintendo Wii came out, and people I know were damaging things when the remotes would go flying. It's like the Wii release every day in a house with kids. My brother-in-law is on their third TV in 5 years.
We got our first flat panel and the Wii together on my sister's fifth Christmas and the TV was broken within 3 months lol
I bought a Hisense model from Costco and set it to "store mode".
For all practical purposes, it is just a dumb HDMI display attached to my computer.
Are you able to adjust its picture settings when it's in store mode?
No. Brightness and contrast are maxed out but it's not bad with a cheaper model.
My opinion --- in some cases, the difference between expensive and cheap boils down to the picture controls being intentionally limited for marketing effect.
So the cheap model maxed out looks like the more expensive model at medium. People can recognize the difference in the store so they opt for the more expensive one. But the actual displays themselves are virtually identical.
It may actually be cheaper to make one grade of display and differentiate using the controls.
What does store mode do?
It disables smart features and many of the settings making it more like a dumb HDMI screen.
This may seem like a good thing, but it also usually enables a "vibrant" postprocessing picture mode, motion smoothing, and maximum brightness so the display looks good in a well lit big box store. Unless your viewing environment is similar (or you don't care so much) that's probably not what you want.
Motion smoothing is awful.
I've always thought this feature might have more potential if more modern deep-learning tech was baked into the video and not just dumb frame interpolation.
I can imagine that there would be a potential to generate interpolated frames that intelligently make fast-moving scenes more understandable while leaving slow-moving scenes more or less at their intended 24 FPS.
Many action movies, especially with close hand-to-hand combat in tight spaces, are difficult to understand visually because 24 FPS just doesn't quite catch the movements.
It will happen, look at the results they are getting out of the framegen stuff on pc graphics cards. DLSS and friends.
I sort of don't like it(Old man shakes fist at sky "I want my frames to be real") but they are getting amazing results.
Depends on the TV. I prefer it off, but on my fancy OLED TV, there is too much "judder" without it on.
It also, in my case, puts up a giant info banner on the screen across the content, about the screen's capabilities, so YMMV.
It lobotomizes the TV
This is interesting to me. I never heard of "store mode". Is that common for "smart TVs" these days? My interest here is for my elderly mother who tries to watch TV, but her current LG is constantly bombarding her with notifications for software updates, recommendations and ads. It's very frustrating for her; it's to the point where she's afraid to turn on the TV.
I want a TV for her that will power-on directly to YouTube-TV, and that's it, nothing else, no notifications, nothing.
Best hackable smart TV should be a Linux box connected to a monitor or to a "smart" TV via HDMI without Internet access. The best thing about this setup is that you can stream Youtube ad-free though clients like VacuumTube. You can also open a browser and head straight to the high seas. Plus countless other things that are arbitrarily restricted or made difficult in locked down environments, all without your viewing habits being sent to the mothership, data brokers, and possibly the government.
The main downside is that there is currently no great "ten foot" UI for this use case on Linux. But the KDE Bigscreen project is being revived and could offer a definitive solution for free TVs.
one should use a mini pc or similar for this; raspberry pi won't handle video so well imo.
Agreed, I don't have first-hand experience with Pi's, but I have seen reports that they struggle with 4K playback, even at 30fps. An advantage of the Pi however is that it supports HDMI-CEC.
Why does it need to be a TV? Why not a monitor? I don’t know why we even differentiate between the two of them these days… basically the only difference is that a TV might have an IR receiver for a remote.
I’d go with a basic monitor and factor out the “smart TV” into whatever device you prefer – Apple TV, Chromecast, Firestick, any SBC with Kodi loaded onto it… an Xbox… why couple the smart features to the display?
I had the same thought but found there are very few TV-size monitors on the market, and the ones there are cost an arm and a leg. There are also very few "dumb" TVs -- we finally got one by Insignia, Best Buy's store brand, which has been fine. If someone knows a better alternative please let me know!
Worth clarifying that when I was a kid "TV-size" meant anything above 13", but the times have changed considerably. :)
I bought a decent 4k monitor to go with my 4k media box, and the required 4k cable, but wouldnt play because 'for your safety, blocked because not a TV' or some such nonsense, think it was HDCP? Annoying enough for me to cancel 4k paid tv, plus they were busy agressively reducing the broadcast bitrate. Also ended up with a load of bluray 4k discs I cant use, and they wonder why people download stuff.
TVs are much cheaper than monitors. They are produced in larger numbers and their lower price is enabled by spying and advertising.
Agree, but also, much worse image quality. Put a, for example 32" TV and a monitor one next to each other, set native resolution, put up a screen with a lot of text, and you'll see - the difference is night and day.
>Agree, but also, much worse image quality.
I managed to grab a 55" 8K LG before 8K went out of fashion. I run it at 4k120 for games and 8k60 with doubling for productivity.
I've never had a better monitor and if one should exist it's not available in any store I know about. Monitors costing 2-3x as much as this TV did back then are worse. When it dies I will have to downgrade. :-/
Hmmm, I'm confused now: aren't 8K displays just becoming a thing? Your perspective sounds like they are a dying breed. In the meantime, for me, they are still prohibitively expensive.
>aren't 8K displays just becoming a thing? Your perspective sounds like they are a dying breed. In the meantime, for me, they are still prohibitively expensive.
I'd say yes and no - they are becoming a thing - again. And you're right that they are prohibitively expensive this time.
Some 5 years ago 8K tv's were heavily marketed and displayed in many electronics stores, but consumers apparently didn't bite - basically no 8K content available and for "normal" TV use you can barely see a difference between 4k and 8k anyway.
So these TV's were very cheap for a short while before they basically disappeared.
And they make for great PC monitors. At normal working distance from a monitor you definitely notice the difference between 4k and 8k.
The screen area is basically the same as a 2x2 grid of 27" 4k monitors, but in one screen. For productivity work it's absolutely glorious, text is super-crisp.
I think there is a market structure problem that blocks progress here. Most people who work all day at a monitor would love to have such a screen, but the people paying for screens buy what the producers are selling, based on price.
So we end up with dual or triple small-monitor setups even in the wealthiest companies. If a few of the FAAMGs started asking for a 50" 8K maybe something would happen, but it hasn't yet. :(
TV panels optimize for viewing video (including subtitles) NOT for text-intensive work.
So you find that TV panels are much larger at lower price points than computer monitors because they serve different purposes.
Because I need to be able to plug in an antenna to watch football
I got a nice Philips Evnia 43" OLED monitor. 12 years belt that, I bought a 42" 1080p LG monitor. Monitors all the way.
> Apple TV, Chromecast, Firestick
Those are not exactly hackable, are they?
What does hackable mean in this context, and what's the downside of any old smart TV not connected to the internet and the input left on your laptop, where you'd never see anything having to with the manufacturer's app OS?
Most TV's today are actually giant Android computers. I opened a friends TV a few years back to try and examine a back light issue and to my surprise there were just 3 small PCB's in the TV: Power supply, LCD driver/interface, and the video input board that contains an Arm SoC. The PSU had a small harness that ran to the other two boards and the SoC board had a ribbon cable to the LCD panel.
The Arm SoC is the real interesting part here as it also has WiFi and Blue Tooth interface, Ethernet, and USB port(s). They're like a giant black box Raspberry Pi. If we could get our hands on the SoC datasheet then its possible we could flash that SoC to run whatever OS we want and actually have a Smart TV instead of a spyware and malware vector. Though I am sure no TV maker would ever let the plebs disable their money making spying and data exfiltration schemes.
I'm being pedantic but I liked your comment. Most TVs today are giant ARM computers, ~95% of TVs ship with ARM Cortex but only about 35% have some variant of Android.
Most LED backlights are wired in such a way that when one LED fails it bricks a significant portion of the panel backlight. You'll knock out entire rows or huge portions of neighbor backlight LEDs when one fails. Basically it's a cheap way to ensure a whole row of LEDs are the same brightness but the tradeoff is one LED fails and it looks like 5% of your screen went dark.
It seems like a good beginner-intermediate thing that'd be approachable to learn with a basic multimeter and beginner level soldering skills.
>If we could get our hands on the SoC datasheet then its possible we could flash that SoC to run whatever OS we want and actually have a Smart TV instead of a spyware and malware vector
Surely it's more straightforward to buy a SBC yourself and plug that into your TV? Even if you could flash it, dealing with random SoC/hardware seems not worth the hassle compared to shelling out $50-200 for a SBC that you picked and can be carried between TVs? Flashing third party ROMs like lineageos makes sense because there's no real alternative for smartphone hardware, but the same isn't true for smart TVs.
> Surely it's more straightforward to buy a SBC yourself and plug that into your TV?
Of course it is. Though my point is we already have the hardware in the TV and it would be awesome to actually use it the way we want to use it. Also, I have two dumb TV's, each with a small PC hooked to it and they haven't moved in years.
If you just want it for the HDMI input to use as an aux screen for what ever computer your running than anything with an HDMI input in the size range you want should work. I run all the TV's in my house like this; connected to mac mini's instead of futzing with the onboard software mostly because I despise typing one letter at a time with a tv remote.
Honestly all the onboard TV OS stuff I have interacted with in the last decade has been more or less terrible and I wouldn't even consider it when buying a TV especially one that is just going to be a screen. All of the recent installs Ive dealt with (family and friend support) has revealed a ton of pay-to-play features (Samsung frame tv's cough cough). I applaud you for wanting something neat but I cant say Ive come across anything Ive ever actually wanted to use beyond "select input -> HDMI1"...
This, this, this.
Just never, ever connect the TV to the internet. Connect up an Nvidia shield, or a mini-PC/raspberry pi configured with whatever apps you desire, hidden behind a pi-hole. Connect a steam deck if gaming/linux desktop usage is your thing. I only touch the TV remote to switch on the TV, and even that could be automatable with home assistant+CEC if that's of interest.
I had a TV once, can't remember the brand, that refused to stream from my dlna server unless it could contact its own corporate servers over the internet first.
In theory, this seems great, but you won't be able to use the majority of streaming applications nor get the same quality out of those applications. Like Netflix, they purposely downgrade the streaming quality on desktop.
The NVIDIA shield doesn’t suffer from those issues in my experience. It’s far superior when browsing menus for example versus on a smart tv as the hardware is still decent even for a relatively old product. I just hope NVIDIA continues to support it for a while more.
Yup.
You generally don't want a smart tv you can hack. You want a decent computer you own sending signal through the external inputs.
The SBC in the TV is, hands down across basically every "smart" TV I've interacted with, a cheap piece of crap (even well into the "expensive" brands and models).
Manufacturers stick the absolute cheapest garbage in there that can output the advertised resolution during playback without stuttering.
So you can spend hours/days/week wrestling this cheap, underpowered board back from the manufacturer... or you can just side-step it entirely and spend much less time and effort sticking a decent computer you own behind the tv.
This!
All my TVs have an Apple TV on them and that's all that is used (aside from a game console here and there). I pretty much never need to interact with the TV OS. Is there a Netflix app on my TV? Probably, I'll never know, I've never even launched the app store.
Unfortunately the family likes live TV, and that is very hard to get without compromising the UX.
OTA TV Tuners fill this niche.
It's been a bit since I've done this (I'm not watching live TV anymore), but something like HDHomeRun worked fine.
It basically pairs an antenna with a small computer to convert to network traffic, then gives you an app on your streaming device to play it back.
You do need to be able to run the vendor's app, and you'll get stuck with that UI for live tv (So yeah - totally agree that you're compromising the UX). But still no reliance on the "smarts" built into the tv.
I have an HDHomeRun box and use it through Plex. I've never installed the HDHomeRun software. Plex immediately recognized it as soon as I plugged it in. There is a noticeable amount of latency between selecting a channel and starting the stream, so channel surfing is pretty cumbersome, but I almost never do that. With the paid version of Plex (Plex Pass), you also get DVR support which automatically removes commercials from the recording, so that's pretty much the only way I use it.
https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/tv-thats-not-necs-pi-...
Any smart TV where some hacker could install its own build of the OS ? Kinda like LineageOS for smart TV ?
Not per se a TV, but it is worth pointing out that LineageOS literally has builds for some set top boxes; if I go to https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ and filter to device type > set top box, then it lists 7 options.
Im using a 43 inch samsung tv as a monitor. It works fine as long as you never conect it to internet.
Chroma 4:4:4 support is supposed to be important for viewing text.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/pc-monitor
I compiled/ported the mario64 port to the LG TV quite easily, so I would say that LGTV is the best for that.
Older LG sets (tested on C9 OLED) had security vulnerabilities you could use to root your TV and then do "??????" you wanted with them. WebOS as a platform causes a lot of unproductive discussion surrounding it's ecosystem and such but if you want to "hack" or actually have a shell on your TV it's great for that to do anything else you want. Personal favorites include changing the default screensaver behavior to the bouncing DVD logo, running Chocolate Doom, and a port of Space Cadet pinball natively. More info here - https://rootmy.tv/
Dpeends what your after, but a second hand NEC multisync, which has an ST slot https://www.sharpnecdisplays.eu/p/download/cp/Products/Optio...
but that might be a bit too basic. because its basically a monitor with 100% duty cycle and a PC.
I did this. Got a new old stock unit for 300GBP, its got a SDM slot for gen8 Intel systems and Pi compute boards.
As ex-Smart TV app developer, I would stay with Sony's Android TV. Reason being
- Samsung Tizen is sluggish. - LG webOS is fiddly and don't feel it gets enough attention and care from LG. - Other brand is just slow. - On hackability, Android is far easier to handle than any other brand.
Mind you Sony has a few line and some run Android, some run something else.
I use a NEC OPS module tv I got on facebook marketplace as a digital signage monitor. Best purchase I've made yet, though I will admit the feet for it being 200 dollars was quite a shock (they're made out of steel and about 2 feet long each so it makes sense) completely dumb tv, takes all inputs from HDMI to component and has features like auto-sleep without any real smarts inside. I love it.
Is there a reason folks don't just use a TV tuner attached to a rather large desktop monitor? (On the desktop? Linux.)
Side question: what TV is best for integration into home assistant from experienced HA users...
I think Samsung TVs can be interacted with through HA's SmartThings integration but I don't use that at all. Instead I have my Harmony Hubs (yes, a dying breed, literally) connected and that's the only way I interact with my TVs via HA.
"Alexa, turn on Living Room TV" -> HA -> Harmony -> IR Blaster
I think through the Apple TV integration I can control them even further but I greatly prefer just using the Harmony remote. I'm not looking forward to the day when those stop working completely and I have to evaluate other options. Every year or so I look around but nothing beats my old Harmony remote (with a coin battery that lasts so long I've lost track, easily over a year) and the Harmony Hub (which actually sends out the signals).
LG TVs have well known WebSocket and serial-port APIs. I haven't tried it with HA, but I'm using alga CLI (https://github.com/Tenzer/alga) to automate my TV (which I'm using as a dumb monitor).
I have a 10yr old Insignia 1080p TV. One of the 3 HDMI inputs is a Roku stick and I have Home Assistant watch for it and load the Jellyfin app whenever the TV gets turned on. Works most of the time and it's nice to avoid the Roku ads.
Any that you can put in store mode, and run all smart features off separate device.
Otherwise it will run out of updates fast, services will stop working and only way to fix that is to buy.. a separate device.
This also let's you make search easier as you can just look at the panel itself when comparing.
I long for a Framework-like TV.
Can you expand here? What are you looking for in specific?
I think I have a framework-like TV. It's a high end TV set to store mode which has no smartOS annoyances. From there, I have expansion modules (they connect via HDMI) like a HDFury Vertex with CFW, Nvidia Shield, PS5, etc.
Decoupling the TV from the OS has helped a ton with longetivity
What more are you looking for?
Stay away from lg, anything with android is a good choice; custom launchers to remove the gif damn Home Screen. I stick to Sonys my one of tv is so terrible will never buy one again.
I actually would like to have a hackable AOSP device with some kind of open source chromecast (because chromecast comes with the Google Services, I guess?).
Then I can plug that into any dumb TV/beamer I find.
I can recommend The LG B2, great panel, great price. The software sucks however but you won't find OLED much cheaper.
I always wonder if there is a kind of AOSP-based alternative to Android for TV?
What you are looking for is a digital signage display and some android tv box
this should be more upvoted, could even bundle them in a grid-like view and have multiple streams
I mentioned in another post here that I opened a friends TV and found just 3 PCB's: Power, LCD interface, and Video SoC. The video SoC is an Arm SoC for TVs that runs Android complete with video input switching matrix and processing. The SoC board had Wifi, bluetooth, Ethernet and USB. It's all there.
My dream is to hack that SoC to boot whatever OS. Though good luck getting the datasheets...
A Vizio without accepting the agreement is a fine hdmi TV.
You could score some insane screens from recycling centers, but at least in Finland, its fucking illegal to repurpose (steal) "electronic waste" However, depending where you're located, all that stuff might go to somewhere else than smasher and smelter, so please check such places around you! Good example is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbqOvBHVpbw ,he found old tobacco ad display (ips!) for cheap!
I kind of hate smart TVs -- my family got a Samsung one that got feature obsoleted in months , but I needed a cctv kiosk -- I bought a fire stick and the cheapest +speakers monitor on amazon with an HDMI port and USB power, was pleasantly surprised; 4k, tiny, performant, adb access isn't fucked up, and you can change the home screen.
By the end of the day it's just an android device with an HDMI out, and that's exactly what I wanted.
I wish there were more modular tvs like this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk
A dumb TV like a Sceptre with a smart hackable device.
I've generally heard LG is the place to start looking, only because they are the inheritors of the hidden jewel that was/is webOS.
A dumb TV with an x86 HTPC attached to the back via VESA bracket. Sceptre dumb TVs from the Wal-Mart web site are your cheat code.
Winner!! I have a pair of these that have multiple HDMI ports. So my "hacking" is hanging a raspberry pi or a x86 computer.
I ditched the whole smart TV years ago. I was never a fan of the slow, ad-ridden software, and later found that enormous packets were being sent when I monitored the DNS at the network level despite the TV being 'turned off'. Instead, I got a non-smart TV (you can find old Sony TVs) and attached a TV box or direct hdmi to an old laptop instead, far smoother and better at all levels.
I think Tizen lets you write your own apps. I know I installed Emby on one of the very cheap smart tvs recently and had to install it via developer mode and pull in the package by typing the IP of my laptop into the TV (maybe vice versa).
I didn't write the code but it seemed like you can get a development account from Tizen and write your own apps.
To be clear, Tizen is not a brand of TV, it's the name of the OS. It's fairly common on various no-name hardware brand, check it out.
You probably want a computer monitor rather than a TV; monitors will prioritize latency which is important for music production.
Related, many modern TVs have "game mode" which prioritizes video latency, with the loss of some of the algs being available.
RTINGS actually tracks this, with most being comparable to monitors at the same refresh rate, while in game mode (around 10x faster than non-game mode). [1]
4k@120Hz with VRR is even available in < $1k TVs these days!
And, for audio latency, unless you're using the built in speakers, it's fairly trivial to make the video and audio paths independent.
[1] https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
Huh? You are confusing video refresh rate with audio latency.
Does the stuff on the screen not need to also be low latency when recording live instruments?
Irrelevant.