Driving around America, you'll see they have these brown background signs telling you about museums and parks and stuff like that. We often stop by these to just take a look and it blows my mind how rich this country is that some random little lake somewhere will have a full blown parking lot and restroom and will look spick and span. There'll be a couple of those standard-issue picnic tables and standard-issue signboards describing the place.
I think the brown signs for "sights" which are the same shape as road directions are kinda standardized? I've been seeing them in Europe for decades too.
These ones with more detailed drawings are less common, but I've also seen them in multiple countries (at least my home town in Italy and some cities in Hungary have them).
Have you moved to the US from somewhere else that doesn't have anything like that? I'm more interested in how that works tbh, because this also seems normal to me (UK) – if there's some natural attraction like woods or a lake or whatever are you just not allowed to see it? Or you are, you can freely roam, but just it's on you to figure out how to get there/what to do with your car etc.? Or would it just not be publicly owned land anyway so previous questions are irrelevant?
I grew up in India. I’m told it’s different now so I’ll just say that I haven’t lived there in decades and my experience was that you would not routinely have a nice parking lot on a paved road that led to a nice viewpoint. You could get there but there is no guarantee of the safe path unless you knew a local and if you went from point A to point B you didn’t have signs pointing out things of significance.
The extensive network of well-signposted trails and so on that I’m now used to were not a common feature of my life there. For what it’s worth, I did have experiences there that one doesn’t routinely have here that were nonetheless an educational part of my life.
Even if it's public land, you usually need a permit (though an America the Beautiful Pass is not that expensive and covers almost all federally-owned land).
However, the point was about the signs. You can find quite a lot of neat little things that you otherwise would have no easy way of discovering.
Texas has a bunch of state historical markers along even minor routes. They can be hard to catch at speed (most TX highways have a 70 MPH speed limit, even small ones), but there's typically a space where you can pull over and read it.
> how rich this country is that some random little lake somewhere will have a full blown parking lot
Aren't the parking spaces required by law, instead of "because we're rich"? I don't know, but I just watched the latest Not Just Bikes video, where he mentions legal requirements for stores to provide lots of parking spaces, which makes everything more expensive.
Parking minimums are implemented during building permitting. Natural lakes don't have building permits, and the parking is often constructed by the state.
These road signs are iconic. They’re noticeable but not distracting. They inform without imposing themselves. There’s something very soothing about them.
If you’ve ever taken the A10 motorway France between Bordeaux and Paris, it’s about a 500 km stretch that is fairly straight and, thus, a bit boring. But seeing these golden signs along the road was always a small event for me as a kid. They act as sporadic milestones: every time you see one, you know you’ve made progress and entered a new region.
Those monuments (from humans or from nature) should be obvious knowledge, but I generally don’t know any of them. It helps pacing the road trip, and be able to say “Mom, I’m at the level of the [Sainte Baume, for me]”.
They are shown on Michelin maps and atlas. We love to travel using the atlas and stopping on interesting sights or roads. Usually in France you can go from A to B the fast and boring way, or the slow and scenic way which is perfect for holiday time
We love these signs when we're touring. In our motorhome we're normally going slow enough that we can just turn off the autoroute or else log interesting sites for a future trip.
I'm British-Canadian so the European roads hold no fear for me. I'd say to any worried North Americans (roundabouts, kms, aires), just do it some time - France in particular is a chilled place to drive motorhomes (RVs if you must) and I've never had any grief. We avoid Paris and other dense urban areas, but the beautiful countryside and easy autoroutes make for an excellent tour. We're off to Norway next month and I hope the signage is as interesting.
Motorhomes pay double toll on French highways, they are over 2m high. It quickly adds up, and anyway the cruising speed of a motorhome is ~100 km/h, so you don't win much over nationales, and the view is worse on a highway.
Reading this article, I just realized that it is something I didn't appreciate enough when I was living in France. In Korea, my home country, you can find a lot of signs for local temples, though. But they do not have identities like French ones. There are some signs too but they are mostly commercial restaurants, local farms, and so on. And they are usually ugly with big letters with saturated colors; red and yellow.
They are not as common in Germany as in France in my experience. I would rather prefer to visit a german castle than waiting for the Stau to disappear.
In Germany, there's a guideline for a minimum distance between such signs so that they still stand out. Though I have seen a few that were closer than the supposed minimum of 20 or 30 km or so.
Yeah its not a rocket science but rather tourism 101 for which every country has dedicated office & budget to support and grow. It may be easier to list western places which don't have them in places where they should.
These are awesome, but the downside is when you already have your day(s) planned out and didn't know about the super-appealing landmark or attraction they depict! Still, they do help set the tone that you are traveling through places with tons of history and awesome cultural destinations worth checking out.
I think their placement is weird though. They really don’t tell you how to get there. Sometimes they are very far from the thing they advertise. And you really shouldn’t go off the motorway when you see the sign. It could be quite confusing when you actually are planning to go to that place.
Also a bunch of places that are shown in the sign are privately owned like zoos and recreation parks. These tend to be iconic ones but it still feels a little off.
I remember being a passenger in an Audi 80 Avant with windsurf boards n that on the roof, traveling from the ruhr in northern Germany to southern Spain, in around 1985. We went via la rue du soleil or a sodding great motorway through France - north to south.
Never able to pay attention to them as I'm hyper alert to « CÉDEZ LE PASSAGE » signs, or the absence of one telling me I don't have to give way, which means I don't have priority, and some random local could barrel out at 90km/h.
! There is right-hand priority in France! The absence of “Yield” sign means you must let the car from the right go, if they don’t have their own sign, EVEN if they’re from a smaller road (apart from private roads).
You were probably victim of a French person using their priority correctly, which is very misleading because you would have been found full-guilty. I call it an “implicit priority to the right” and municipalities use it abundantly to create slow traffic, but foreigners don’t always know that smaller innocent secondary streets can have priority OVER the main road of a village.
Oh yes, the local shooting out of a narrow lane often has the legal right to do that. I think that is mad. If you want that behaviour, the the main road should have a stop sign.
Particularly in small hamlets, where there is a stone cottage on the corner, there is no visibility of incoming traffic. MOST of the little streets will have a stop/give way, but you can't be sure. It's like playing Russian roulette.
Just terrible road design because of an ancient rule from the horse and carriage era.
Absolutely terrible road design. I’m just saying: Yes it is enforced, active, alive and used.
Worse: It is inconsistent. My father was rolling out from a neighborhood from the right, hit a car: He didn’t have the right of way because the “cadastre” (the registry of ownership maps) said the land belonged to the neighborhood and therefore was private property. But in MY neighborhood, the neighborhood land belongs to the city and it would have given him priority.
I think as a country becomes more international, there are fewer unintuitive rules and more explicit markings required for everyone. That France didn’t change that is a mark of cute traditionalism.
Interesting, I've driven in 15 different European countries and found France to be one of the easiest and most chill. I mean, on the highways and city streets, anyways -- not so much on the farmland single-lane roads that shockingly have a speed limit of 90km/h lol ... but regardless, the "people merging in from the right have the right-of-way" actually makes sense to me since they're engaging in the most "high-pressure" action, while those of us strolling along on the highway can just adjust our speed to give them space, or change lanes ahead of time as needed.
Interestingly, I believe this manoeuvre (move over to make room for cars entering the highway) is banned in Germany, because it can cause accidents as the cars from the slower right lanes suddenly move to the left lanes.
That is not correct - making room is legal and encouraged. You are free to use left lanes for good reasons - being too lazy to switch lanes is the one common not good reason.
High speed driving requires looking far ahead to anticipate lane changes of other drivers.
For somebody with seemingly so much experience its interesting how incorrect yet confident you are. Maybe less bragging about meaningless numbers (kms driven are much more important) and more fact-checking in the future?
I mean, on one trip alone I drove over 7000km. If I said something incorrect, feel free to point it out. Sometimes people don't remember every single detail of every law of a country they don't live in. Maybe less condescending hostility in the future?
I'm not talking about highways but country roads. The signs cancelling give way to the right are used in many urban and rural locations. But the absence of them doesn't always mean give way to the right -- you might be able to see they have a stop sign, or the smudge of a line indicating a stop sign you can't see. It's incredibly bad design.
Well, the signs described in the article are only used on the highways, so if they were talking about non-highway driving I guess they may have missed that detail heh
Do you know of any official government-supplied reference for this information? No worries if not, but I'm trying to find something definitive because I am seeing opposing information all over the place (including on authoritative-sounding travel/tourism sites).
I see from checking Google Maps that, indeed, the merging lanes all have a yield sign in them (from the handful I checked). Now I'm wondering "do they have the sign because otherwise the merging vehicle WOULD have the right of way?" or "is this just a friendly reminder of what would legally be the case even if the sign wasn't there?"
In France, in absence of contrary indications (ie: absence of signs, traffic signals, or line markings), it's "Priority to the Right".
So if it's an actual roundabout (aka, "rond-point"), then normal traffic rules apply for intersections: Priority to the Right. Vehicles already on the roundabout must yield to cars entering it.
Often, you have what is referred as "Carrefours à sens giratoire", which can very much look like "rond-points", but priority is to the vehicles already on the roundabout. For this reason, there will be a yield sign at the entrance of the roundabout to make it clear there's a special rule that applies to it. Sometimes you have traffic lights as well.
> Vehicles already on the roundabout must yield to cars entering it.
Yeah but that's theory and theory only.
I would say that 99.9% of anything that look like a roundabout is a "normal roundabout" where the priority is for people in the center, not for the ones entering. This is currently the same than the rest of Europe.
Place de l'étoile is an exception, not a rule and the total number of roundabout like that in the country can probably be counted on one hand.
Most of the world doesn't have 6x6 lane uncontrolled intersections where people need to yield to the right. In fact your average 2 lane intersection with traffic lights, here in North America, once those traffic lights don't work for some reason it becomes almost impossible to navigate the intersection despite the "priority rules" being more or less known. It just becomes total chaos because there is usually enough traffic to just keep one direction going forever given that everyone slows down.
Even with one lane intersections North America usually uses "all stop" if there's any amount of traffic to regulate the flow.
I just hate multi-lane roundabouts in general but the French ones I dislike even more. There's a lot more that you need to keep track of, the traffic in the roundabout and the traffic that wants to enter.
> In France who has the right of way? The car that is already in the roundabout or the car entering the roundabout?
Actually it's pretty consistent all across Europe. Almost everywhere, every entrance to the roundabout has the yield sign [1]. Without the yield sign, every incoming traffic is right hand traffic and those already on the roundabout have to give a way.
Now the trick is that yield signs at the entrance are so common that drivers assume they are always there.
Driving around America, you'll see they have these brown background signs telling you about museums and parks and stuff like that. We often stop by these to just take a look and it blows my mind how rich this country is that some random little lake somewhere will have a full blown parking lot and restroom and will look spick and span. There'll be a couple of those standard-issue picnic tables and standard-issue signboards describing the place.
I really love these random stops.
I think the brown signs for "sights" which are the same shape as road directions are kinda standardized? I've been seeing them in Europe for decades too.
These ones with more detailed drawings are less common, but I've also seen them in multiple countries (at least my home town in Italy and some cities in Hungary have them).
Absolutely. But France may well have been the first country to have them.
indeed, especially since TFA says they're 50 years old :)
Have you moved to the US from somewhere else that doesn't have anything like that? I'm more interested in how that works tbh, because this also seems normal to me (UK) – if there's some natural attraction like woods or a lake or whatever are you just not allowed to see it? Or you are, you can freely roam, but just it's on you to figure out how to get there/what to do with your car etc.? Or would it just not be publicly owned land anyway so previous questions are irrelevant?
I grew up in India. I’m told it’s different now so I’ll just say that I haven’t lived there in decades and my experience was that you would not routinely have a nice parking lot on a paved road that led to a nice viewpoint. You could get there but there is no guarantee of the safe path unless you knew a local and if you went from point A to point B you didn’t have signs pointing out things of significance.
The extensive network of well-signposted trails and so on that I’m now used to were not a common feature of my life there. For what it’s worth, I did have experiences there that one doesn’t routinely have here that were nonetheless an educational part of my life.
Even if it's public land, you usually need a permit (though an America the Beautiful Pass is not that expensive and covers almost all federally-owned land).
However, the point was about the signs. You can find quite a lot of neat little things that you otherwise would have no easy way of discovering.
Texas has a bunch of state historical markers along even minor routes. They can be hard to catch at speed (most TX highways have a 70 MPH speed limit, even small ones), but there's typically a space where you can pull over and read it.
> how rich this country is that some random little lake somewhere will have a full blown parking lot
Aren't the parking spaces required by law, instead of "because we're rich"? I don't know, but I just watched the latest Not Just Bikes video, where he mentions legal requirements for stores to provide lots of parking spaces, which makes everything more expensive.
Parking minimums are implemented during building permitting. Natural lakes don't have building permits, and the parking is often constructed by the state.
American natural parks' restrooms will look spick and span?
That wasn't my experience in California and Nevada as a tourist from Europe.
These road signs are iconic. They’re noticeable but not distracting. They inform without imposing themselves. There’s something very soothing about them.
If you’ve ever taken the A10 motorway France between Bordeaux and Paris, it’s about a 500 km stretch that is fairly straight and, thus, a bit boring. But seeing these golden signs along the road was always a small event for me as a kid. They act as sporadic milestones: every time you see one, you know you’ve made progress and entered a new region.
Those monuments (from humans or from nature) should be obvious knowledge, but I generally don’t know any of them. It helps pacing the road trip, and be able to say “Mom, I’m at the level of the [Sainte Baume, for me]”.
They are shown on Michelin maps and atlas. We love to travel using the atlas and stopping on interesting sights or roads. Usually in France you can go from A to B the fast and boring way, or the slow and scenic way which is perfect for holiday time
As a European I don't know a single country I have visited that doesn't have these kind of signs.
Looks like it was invented in France and spread later to other countries.
Yeah, I remember I’ve seen those signs in Luxembourg and Germany as well! We don’t have that in Italy though
We love these signs when we're touring. In our motorhome we're normally going slow enough that we can just turn off the autoroute or else log interesting sites for a future trip.
I'm British-Canadian so the European roads hold no fear for me. I'd say to any worried North Americans (roundabouts, kms, aires), just do it some time - France in particular is a chilled place to drive motorhomes (RVs if you must) and I've never had any grief. We avoid Paris and other dense urban areas, but the beautiful countryside and easy autoroutes make for an excellent tour. We're off to Norway next month and I hope the signage is as interesting.
Motorhomes pay double toll on French highways, they are over 2m high. It quickly adds up, and anyway the cruising speed of a motorhome is ~100 km/h, so you don't win much over nationales, and the view is worse on a highway.
Totally, we mix things up route-wise for that reason.
I do not remember signage to be particularly interesting in Norway but they do have some of the most spectacular routes in Europe!
Reading this article, I just realized that it is something I didn't appreciate enough when I was living in France. In Korea, my home country, you can find a lot of signs for local temples, though. But they do not have identities like French ones. There are some signs too but they are mostly commercial restaurants, local farms, and so on. And they are usually ugly with big letters with saturated colors; red and yellow.
This is not a specifically french sight, similar signs are common across whole Europe.
Seems like they were invented in France in the 70s (I looked it up). I think they started to appear in Germany later than that, about early 2000s.
They are not as common in Germany as in France in my experience. I would rather prefer to visit a german castle than waiting for the Stau to disappear.
In Germany, there's a guideline for a minimum distance between such signs so that they still stand out. Though I have seen a few that were closer than the supposed minimum of 20 or 30 km or so.
"Stau". International word, now.
The ones in the UK are much more minimalist: logos and symbols rather than detailed drawings.
Italy, Denmark and Germany also have similar signs: brown, with a drawing (expect Italy, which has photos).
Yeah its not a rocket science but rather tourism 101 for which every country has dedicated office & budget to support and grow. It may be easier to list western places which don't have them in places where they should.
These are awesome, but the downside is when you already have your day(s) planned out and didn't know about the super-appealing landmark or attraction they depict! Still, they do help set the tone that you are traveling through places with tons of history and awesome cultural destinations worth checking out.
Japan has similar signs for cities along the highway.
Oh I didn’t realize these only existed in France!
These are cool indeed.
I think their placement is weird though. They really don’t tell you how to get there. Sometimes they are very far from the thing they advertise. And you really shouldn’t go off the motorway when you see the sign. It could be quite confusing when you actually are planning to go to that place.
Also a bunch of places that are shown in the sign are privately owned like zoos and recreation parks. These tend to be iconic ones but it still feels a little off.
Well, they don't, I've seen them at least in Hungary and Italy.
Still, it is possible France came up with them first.
> They really don’t tell you how to get there.
That's French, and Italian, roadsigns in general.
I remember being a passenger in an Audi 80 Avant with windsurf boards n that on the roof, traveling from the ruhr in northern Germany to southern Spain, in around 1985. We went via la rue du soleil or a sodding great motorway through France - north to south.
We had to slow down to 80mph in France.
Never able to pay attention to them as I'm hyper alert to « CÉDEZ LE PASSAGE » signs, or the absence of one telling me I don't have to give way, which means I don't have priority, and some random local could barrel out at 90km/h.
! There is right-hand priority in France! The absence of “Yield” sign means you must let the car from the right go, if they don’t have their own sign, EVEN if they’re from a smaller road (apart from private roads).
You were probably victim of a French person using their priority correctly, which is very misleading because you would have been found full-guilty. I call it an “implicit priority to the right” and municipalities use it abundantly to create slow traffic, but foreigners don’t always know that smaller innocent secondary streets can have priority OVER the main road of a village.
Oh yes, the local shooting out of a narrow lane often has the legal right to do that. I think that is mad. If you want that behaviour, the the main road should have a stop sign.
Particularly in small hamlets, where there is a stone cottage on the corner, there is no visibility of incoming traffic. MOST of the little streets will have a stop/give way, but you can't be sure. It's like playing Russian roulette.
Just terrible road design because of an ancient rule from the horse and carriage era.
Absolutely terrible road design. I’m just saying: Yes it is enforced, active, alive and used.
Worse: It is inconsistent. My father was rolling out from a neighborhood from the right, hit a car: He didn’t have the right of way because the “cadastre” (the registry of ownership maps) said the land belonged to the neighborhood and therefore was private property. But in MY neighborhood, the neighborhood land belongs to the city and it would have given him priority.
I think as a country becomes more international, there are fewer unintuitive rules and more explicit markings required for everyone. That France didn’t change that is a mark of cute traditionalism.
Interesting, I've driven in 15 different European countries and found France to be one of the easiest and most chill. I mean, on the highways and city streets, anyways -- not so much on the farmland single-lane roads that shockingly have a speed limit of 90km/h lol ... but regardless, the "people merging in from the right have the right-of-way" actually makes sense to me since they're engaging in the most "high-pressure" action, while those of us strolling along on the highway can just adjust our speed to give them space, or change lanes ahead of time as needed.
People merging have right of way only on the parisian périphérique. On all other motorways in France, the merging cars must yield.
It is common courtesy to move over or match speed so they can merge more easily, but that's not the law.
Interestingly, I believe this manoeuvre (move over to make room for cars entering the highway) is banned in Germany, because it can cause accidents as the cars from the slower right lanes suddenly move to the left lanes.
That is not correct - making room is legal and encouraged. You are free to use left lanes for good reasons - being too lazy to switch lanes is the one common not good reason.
High speed driving requires looking far ahead to anticipate lane changes of other drivers.
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For somebody with seemingly so much experience its interesting how incorrect yet confident you are. Maybe less bragging about meaningless numbers (kms driven are much more important) and more fact-checking in the future?
I mean, on one trip alone I drove over 7000km. If I said something incorrect, feel free to point it out. Sometimes people don't remember every single detail of every law of a country they don't live in. Maybe less condescending hostility in the future?
I don't think they're talking about merging on a highway?
Sounds like they're talking about the fact that at an intersection, unless signaled otherwise, the people coming from the right have right of way.
I'm not talking about highways but country roads. The signs cancelling give way to the right are used in many urban and rural locations. But the absence of them doesn't always mean give way to the right -- you might be able to see they have a stop sign, or the smudge of a line indicating a stop sign you can't see. It's incredibly bad design.
Well, the signs described in the article are only used on the highways, so if they were talking about non-highway driving I guess they may have missed that detail heh
> "people merging in from the right have the right-of-way" actually makes sense to me
Yeah but they don't; priority to the right never happens on motorways, all insertions lanes have “Cédez le passage” signs.
Do you know of any official government-supplied reference for this information? No worries if not, but I'm trying to find something definitive because I am seeing opposing information all over the place (including on authoritative-sounding travel/tourism sites).
I see from checking Google Maps that, indeed, the merging lanes all have a yield sign in them (from the handful I checked). Now I'm wondering "do they have the sign because otherwise the merging vehicle WOULD have the right of way?" or "is this just a friendly reminder of what would legally be the case even if the sign wasn't there?"
(edit: I seem to have found the relevant regulations at https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/section_lc/LEGITEXT0000... , article R415-8 seems to cover it)
Reduced to 80km/h since 2018.
Practically people go much faster than 80km/h.
Oh right, I totally forgot! I mean, even then, for so many of those roads I'd never consider driving that fast haha
Paris' périphérique is nowadays limited to 50 km/h.
These signs are mostly on the highway
They need to teach how to use their crazy roundabouts...
EDIT: https://youtube.com/shorts/Fs8h9SRqJ5I?si=eZNm9p5HirXkknmU
That's just a regular rounndabout.
I thought you were talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OGvj7GZSIo
Heh. Let's do a quick survey though. In France who has the right of way? The car that is already in the roundabout or the car entering the roundabout?
In France, in absence of contrary indications (ie: absence of signs, traffic signals, or line markings), it's "Priority to the Right".
So if it's an actual roundabout (aka, "rond-point"), then normal traffic rules apply for intersections: Priority to the Right. Vehicles already on the roundabout must yield to cars entering it.
Often, you have what is referred as "Carrefours à sens giratoire", which can very much look like "rond-points", but priority is to the vehicles already on the roundabout. For this reason, there will be a yield sign at the entrance of the roundabout to make it clear there's a special rule that applies to it. Sometimes you have traffic lights as well.
> Vehicles already on the roundabout must yield to cars entering it.
Yeah but that's theory and theory only.
I would say that 99.9% of anything that look like a roundabout is a "normal roundabout" where the priority is for people in the center, not for the ones entering. This is currently the same than the rest of Europe.
Place de l'étoile is an exception, not a rule and the total number of roundabout like that in the country can probably be counted on one hand.
> the total number of roundabout like that in the country can probably be counted on one hand.
Most probably not. I know 3 of them off the top of my head in my neck of the woods. They are not super common, but they are not that rare either.
I've been driving in France for almost 30 years and I wouldn't be able to point to a single "rond-point".
Most of the world doesn't have 6x6 lane uncontrolled intersections where people need to yield to the right. In fact your average 2 lane intersection with traffic lights, here in North America, once those traffic lights don't work for some reason it becomes almost impossible to navigate the intersection despite the "priority rules" being more or less known. It just becomes total chaos because there is usually enough traffic to just keep one direction going forever given that everyone slows down.
Even with one lane intersections North America usually uses "all stop" if there's any amount of traffic to regulate the flow.
I just hate multi-lane roundabouts in general but the French ones I dislike even more. There's a lot more that you need to keep track of, the traffic in the roundabout and the traffic that wants to enter.
> In France who has the right of way? The car that is already in the roundabout or the car entering the roundabout?
Actually it's pretty consistent all across Europe. Almost everywhere, every entrance to the roundabout has the yield sign [1]. Without the yield sign, every incoming traffic is right hand traffic and those already on the roundabout have to give a way.
Now the trick is that yield signs at the entrance are so common that drivers assume they are always there.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_sign
In Italy, we call those no-yield-sign ones "French roundabouts" ("rotonde alla francese").
They've been super rare since the early 2000's though.
In Brussels, there are exactly two roundabouts without yield signs, and drivers usually know these by heart.
There always a reason for the absence of the yield sign: curvy surface or tram crissing.
> In France who has the right of way? The car that is already in the roundabout or the car entering the roundabout?
The answer is, it depends, pay attention to the signs! Most of the time it’s the car on the roundabout, but not always.
Swindon's 'magic roundabout' come up regularly on HN. I drive around it regularly. It's fine.
I took my boys around that roundabout when they were learning to drive.
The “Grapes in a Cognac glass” image looks like an electric car charger symbol lol
France did not invent them.
That's not very informative. Who invented them then?
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